His first appearance on Late Show with David Letterman in 1996 was a dream come true for comedian/actor Andy Kindler (Everybody Loves Raymond, Bob’s Burgers). Little did he know then that he’d return to the show 38 times before Letterman’s retirement, both as a standup and as a correspondent for the show.
This week on Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff, Kindler talks about his Letterman gigs, his stint on The Daily Show, playing himself on The Larry Sanders Show, and his very public animus toward Jay Leno, which he says led one NBC exec to ban him from appearing on Late Night with Conan O’Brien.
Click the embed below to listen now, or find Inside Late Night on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Andy Kindler co-hosts the podcast Thought Spiral with J. Elvis Weinstein. Visit his website or follow him on Bluesky.
Show Transcript
Mark Malkoff: Andy Kindler, nice to see you.
Andy Kindler: Good to see you. This seemed like a, it seems like a long time, not a long time, uh, since I’ve spoke to you last, but a long time since this session began.
It, it has. We, we had some technical issues, people that are listening, but it was, it was, uh, you know, things happen, I guess. It happened with David Cross, I think, one other person, but it doesn’t normally.
And then he was, did he go crazy. David Cross go crazy. I, this will not stand. I am David Cross. No, he was probably nice.
He was actually, it was like 17 minutes, I think it was the only other person and we just kind of waved at each other and couldn’t hear each other just like we just did. But here we are. Um, so I’m in Queens. I live in Astoria, Queens. You grew up in Whitestone, Queens, and then you go to college and it’s Binghamton?
Binghamton. In fact, not only did I grow up in Whitestone, Queens, my father owned, my father had a company called Pilot Gas and Heat. And then it split off where he had a supply company for the same pile of gas and heat. So he had his office in Long Island City and, but yet, yet, and his name was Lawrence Larry, but we, but we, as a nickname, we called him Lawrence of Astoria. Is what we would call him. I like it. And he was kind of a rule that area. Yeah. So, so yeah, so he had his business there and I went, I went upstate. Uh, to, uh, the State University of New York at Binghamton.
So you’re there, and this is the late seventies and you’re doing plays. You’re doing, I know you did a Mad Dog Blues by Sam Shepard and you did a play called Heart and Soul. So did you think at this point, I knew you were doing violin lessons that you would ever go into comedy?
You know, it’s so funny that you’re talking about this because I, because, because I grew up born in 56. So when the Beatles came out, I was there watching the TV. So from that generation, you would have had to have early on been leaning towards comedy. Now, later on, I found out that my dad, when he was a boy, walked to school back and this is an actual true story. For two years, he walked back and forth to school with Don Rickles. And they lived in Jackson Heights. And the thing that was amazing was I actually, this was like one of my favorite stories is I, I met Don Rickles at the American Comedy Awards. And I said to him, um, I said, Don, my, my father, uh, Larry Kindler walked to school with you every day. He goes, uh, yeah, great. Tell Larry we’ll have lunch. Right. So he walks off and then two, two weeks later, they’re shooting a comedy central promo, and I’m the driver in the promo. So I say the two hours in, I want to never get rested. I said, Mr. Rickles, I just want to tell you about my, my father, Larry Kindler, really did go, go to school with you. And you both were born, you know, in Jackson Heights. He goes, yeah, I remember he had a blue jacket. So then he sends me two weeks later. I thought that would be the end of it. Two weeks later, he sends me and my father eight by 10 headshots. And to me, he goes, dear Andy, don’t call me. And then dear Larry, have a ball. And my father just absolutely.
I love that you got to work with so many just amazing people that you found funny over the years. I know that you kind of get this reputation for, you know, you don’t like people, but I mean, you got to do The Larry Sanders Show, and I know you were a big Shandling fan, or admirer of at least his work.
Yeah, well, here’s the thing, like if I was in rap, I would be celebrated for all the feuds. But no one, when I put that, when I, when I, uh, when I would say things like I’m offering a million dollars for footage of Whoopi Goldberg being funny. There was no, there was nobody was celebrating me as part of the comic feud. When I said, uh, who died and made Jim Belushi a big star, this was not celebrated because comics have extremely thin skin as opposed to rappers.
It’s a little bit different, but you, you got really blown up, um, by doing that at Montreal, you do the, you would get up and it was written in the New York Times and you got so much, uh, press with the state of the industry and it started in 96. And it was this thing where. You know, they asked you to do it once and you’d killed so much. And then you would do a Q and A, and then it just, it grew into this thing where it was, the press just loved it. And it was this inside thing that you probably never thought would go past the room and then soon it’s national news.
Well, here’s the thing about going past the room. You know, it’s like, I’m a regular human being. Uh, in 1996, I was, um, uh, I was born in 56. I was 40 years old, you know? Um, and. I started comedy when I was 28. The thing I was going to tell you was that I wanted to make a living in music. So I played violin when I was a kid. I hated it, hated it, hated it. And then I switched to guitar in high school because my sister played and she had a beautiful voice. She’s passed away. I love her. God rest her soul. We used to sing together and so that’s what I thought. In fact, I played a Catch a Rising Star back in 1975 or something like that, when it was a music, mostly a music club and I played music there. So, uh, I kind of just stumbled, I kind of, the thing that was great about stand up for me was I really did stumble into it. Even though I, I’d go to The Comedy Store and of course I’d, you know, my whole life, I’d done all this acting in college. So you would have thought I would have gotten the idea earlier, but I didn’t start till I was 28.
I love the fact in college you were billed as Andrew Kindler.
Well, this is so crazy to me.That’s also me as struggling. And you know, I, I have a podcast and I’m not just plugging, it’s called Thought Spiral, but we talk about all the embarrassing parts of my life. And one of the most embarrassing things is that when I was a freshman in college, I did want to call myself Andrew Kindler. And I tried writing, I thought, cause Andy Kindler sounds too, it’s too informal. I wanted to write poems and God Almighty, they were terrible poems.
You did get a good review though, from, and when you were in college in February of 77 for Heart and Soul, this is a critic from the Press Sun Bulletin. Andrew Kindler as Hart is constantly at the center of the play’s swirl. He is believable as an almost rock star, and his performance keeps the play from floundering.
Well, I don’t know about that, because the guy who wrote the play was Ed Schneider, and I’m still friends with him, and it wasn’t floundering. And Ed, I’d go to the wall for that script. I loved Heart and Soul. But the thing is, uh, I’m sorry.
No, it’s a critic. It was just a theater, write up?
Oh, I know. I’m just kidding around.I’m just, I’m kidding. Come on, Mark. You know me.
I do.
All right. So, uh, so, um, basically. interesting that you’re saying it because I did want to be an actor and whether you use this or not is irrelevant, but I, but I had very low self esteem, interestingly enough, even though I had higher self esteem, but I had very low self esteem. I was encouraged to be funny as a kid because that made the whole family laugh, but there was other things weren’t encouraged. So I did not think I could sing because, uh, I hated my voice and I hated, but then I realized now the therapy, yes, that’s the judge shadow. Shame shadow in your head. That’s always going after me. So now I’ve actually have a better relationship. I have a great relationship with music because I want to sing and I want to play and I just do it. I don’t, I don’t think about, Oh am I good enough to do it. But it really kind of freaked me out. Not thinking I had self esteem and not thinking. So all this stuff in college that I’d done, which I thought. The other thing was the, my director friend in college was a good friend of mine, he passed away, but he’s a really great friend of mine. He was going through this method thing, where he was saying, you have to be in the moment. You have to be in the moment. And I never felt completely in the moment. So after three years into the program, my friend Naomi says, Hey, I’m, I don’t feel in the moment. And then he goes, we’ll just go with that. So this whole time I was trying to feel like I wasn’t a complete actor, but then, you know, you find out from other actors, like, uh, Jack Lemmon would say, how can you be totally in the role that you don’t hear anybody’s voice? It doesn’t make sense. So that’s all to say that I did have a love for that early on. And comedy early on, and the comedy did really, I did, I won a decla. This sounds like I’m being, I’m bragging, but I won a declamation contest in ninth grade and I, it doesn’t even matter that, that none of us know what a declamation contest was, but I would, I was doing like a, a poem, uh, uh, like one of these like, uh, oh captain, my captain poems, and I, uh, improv that there was a coach criticizing me while I was doing it. So, I mean, and that was, I did that in like Golden Auditorium in Queens. You would have thought my self esteem was that you’ve got something here, kiddo. But no, my self esteem remained very, very low until recently,
Until today. Who gets 39 letterman bookings. It’s amazing. I was talking to Don Giller today, the Donz, who’s the official Letterman expert and it said on IMDB 35, but he said, no, it’s 39 plus a bump. And that’s, it’s just amazing.
Is that, does that count? I don’t even know if that counts for all the standup appearances.
I think it does.
Okay. He knows.
It’s unbelievable. Let’s start at the beginning. This is July 1st, 1996. She, you show up, um, this is your dream, uh, to do Letterman. Harry Connick is on the show. Who, who, who did you work with? Cause Zoe Friedman wasn’t there yet.
Zoey Friedman was there.
Oh, okay. So you were, were you working with Zoe?
I work with Joey and yeah. And the thing that you’re looking at, I think that’s the night I was bumped.
It was, but I wanted to kind of talk about what you remember because you, you know, you’re at the show, you have all this adrenaline, you’re backstage.
I wasn’t backstage. This is such an amazing stop buildings. I hate when people go, it’s a funny story. It’s an amazing, stop overselling your story. But no, what happened was I had been, the show was so popular at that time and they had some weird thing where they would shoot. Two, two shows a night. That’s what it was. Yes. They were doing two shows a night. So I was, and usually the comedy was on the second Thursday show, I think. So I’m out in a, um, And a camper, whatever you call it, a honey wagon, whatever they call those things. And I walk, I’m nervous, nervous, nervous, nervous, nervous. I walk into the, where everybody is, Zoe, my parents, I brought my parents down there. I brought my parents down there. I put my friend Ira from college down there. I never did this again. I never repeated this again. And so they’re all in the, in the trailer and they’re sitting. So I walk on the trail, you go, what’s the matter? Am I getting bumped? And of course I was getting bumped so that Harry Connick could do a third song. I got bumped. And this is such a true story. My father was so hurt. He was so hurt by it. He was looking out the window. He was like almost crying from it. And then my mother said, bumped. Why don’t they say what it really is. They’re breaking the promise.
You did get paid, which is nice.
That’s always good.
Um, was it Flip Wilson? We got one five times with Carson and yeah, the money it’s still good at scale, but it’s still decent money. And back then before the town cars, they give you a limousine. So you have that going for you. Why would you be out in a trailer? I’ve never heard of that.
I think it was just a, a year or two where they did these two, maybe they stopped even doing these two shows or they did continue the two shows. I think they continue the two shows, but they kept it inside.They figured out a way to not have trailers. It must have been a brief period.
So you don’t come back until October. This is Geena Davis, Marv Albert, Peter Gallagher and yourself. So you have a few months. Are you just running this Letterman set every day? Do you have any idea when you’re going to get called? Or is it one of those things where Zoe is just like, uh, we want you tomorrow? Or how does it work?
Yeah, I think I’m, I’m, you know, I would be lying if I said I remember everything that happened between the first date that you said that I don’t remember, which was the first date, June? It was July 1st that you were bumped, and then October 10th, which And, so, I don’t, I don’t remember exactly what happened, I don’t think, but I remember going on, but I remember, but to me, I bombed on that show, absolutely bombed.
Why? Why do you think so? Because you were I came back on the show so many times.
Okay, so here’s what happened. I, I came, I thought I bombed, but I always think I bombed. I, because what I wanted to be is I wanted to be at the level of Letterman that he could see that I was like a Letterman and I talked about myself. Cause I was so influenced by him. He would be self-deprecating and talk about, I was just extremely nervous. So I’m not a good. Um, I’m not a good view, but it felt bad. The set felt bad and I wasn’t invited back for four years. And when I came back to the show in 2000, my opening line was, you know, I was here in 96. I’m here in 2000. Now I said, I can’t live on this kind of money.
It’s really funny. So Eddie Brill is, uh, is, is doing the booking…
Doing it then. Yeah.
And, and he gets you in and then. You come back later that year and then 2001 and then 2005, sometimes people say, you know, Letterman in terms of the visibility and stuff, you know, it’s Ray Romano, definitely Gaffigan, he got a sitcom out of it. And then in terms of exposure and stuff, I mean, it’s, you did, according to the records, you did something like you did remotes 25 times, which is unheard of. I mean, for some, for a standup comedian, he’s never had another standup comic that I know of. On CBS or even NBC do remotes. Do you, can you think of anybody?
Well, I mean, this is what the thing that’s, you know, this is the thing that I’ve said my entire life that I don’t care if I do one more thing. I’m happy. I don’t care if I do one more thing. I’m happy because that was my career goal was to be on Letterman. That was what I dreamed about. And then to have him. Uh, you know, it sounds like i’m one of these old, uh, sam, you know one of these old, uh, Uh borscht belt guys. Yeah He loved me. No, but what happened was that he he called, wanted me he called personally not to me, but to my people because he wanted me to do, start doing the field pieces. And what had happened was he used to do the field pieces all the time when the show started. And I mean, this is what I heard was that he couldn’t go out anymore. He kept getting mobbed, couldn’t go out. So then he started doing that thing with, uh, with, uh, the deli, uh, hello deli.
Rupert Gee.
Rupert, yes, unbelievably hilarious routines, but, but almost got Rupert. What I heard was that almost got Rupert, they, you know, beaten up, uh, not, not that close, but they were starting to get worried because the people would be so upset at the things that Letterman was telling Rupert to say, but then he decided to, he said, he came to me and just want to know, was, would I be interested in doing these pieces? Now he didn’t say you’re going to be doing 25 of them. You know, he didn’t say anything. It was just that this was the next direction they were going to go in for however long it worked, you know, like type of thing.
Yeah. Rupert, the last Rupert that didn’t air, it was a, I believe that was a car salesman pulled a gun on Rupert and that was, I think when they said, Dave was like, we’re not doing this anymore. So the, the field pieces, I do want to ask you, first of all, the pieces that I saw, and I don’t think I saw all 25, but I mean,
Oh no, come on, Mark. Oh, I mean, it’s Christmas.
Usually for my preparation, I would see everything, but I do have to ask. And I think
It’s amazing what you have here. I mean, this is like a, This Is Your Life almost.
Oh, I, I was gonna say though, do you think it’s at least fair to say that maybe part of Dave’s decision, other than you being funny and the pieces working and getting lots of laughs from the audience, had something to do at least a little bit with, um, you publicly, um, kind of bashing Jay Leno? Do you think that had anything?
I, I, I would not be surpri I would not be Here’s what I think. I was friends, really good friends. Well, you can say really good friends. I wasn’t like Letterman was friends with him, but I was really good friends with George Miller and I was friends with him right towards the end of his life. And so he was always telling me about. He was, first of all, he tried to tell, I think he told Letterman about me, but I think it’s true what you’re saying that it may very well have been true. But at any, at any rate, Letterman began, I knew he enjoyed my comment. I just knew that. And that was, uh, and Jerry who passed away, I’m sorry about this.
Jerry, Jerry Foley, the director?
Who passed away, told me something at, uh, an early shoot that really, it really was great to hear. And it’s kind of true. He goes. With David Letterman, if he thinks you’re funny, it’s gold, funny is gold to him. So. I knew that he thought I was funny. And in fact, once he, he repeated one of my jokes during another show when I wasn’t on, it didn’t go, it got cut out, but he said, you know, he repeated a punchline of mine and so it’s like such a, to me, I’ll never get over the fact that he was a hero, that he’s a hero to me, I will never be able to overcome. How I feel about him. I mean, I’m not comparing myself to him and Carson, but the way he was around Carson, cause he always felt nervous and it’s like, I, I feel that way about him. And so, yeah, it’s just, it was the dream of my life that did come true.
He personally put you in the Foo Fighters montage, the last show. Did you have any idea that you were going to be there?
No idea. Oh God, thrilled, thrilled. I was so thrilled. And the only thing I didn’t, I wasn’t putting, I wasn’t wearing out my welcome, but My last standup was not that long before the end of the show, but not the final ones.
It’s February. It was February of that year.
February of the same year, right? Uh, my wife and everybody was like, my let’s let me try to get one more set in there. And then I sent another set to be approved, which, I’m sorry. No problem. No problem. No, uh, I, you know, it’s the thing about it is the other thing he did once was he got an award, uh, And he asked me to pick it up for him. Like he, like I would accept an award. I can’t remember what the award was for now. I couldn’t do it. But the fact that he would ask me to do that. So if my dream in life, which other people’s approval can only go so far, but if one of my dreams in life was for David Letterman to think I’m funny, that dream did come true.
Absolutely.
The problem is the problem is if you start going. Oh, well now I’ll call Dave and, uh, ask him what he’s doing. Hey, how are you? You know, so I’ve been very, that’s like, I grew up very insecure, very envious, but I’m so aware of myself now. So I’m, uh, I’m so clear, like with that event, that that event was the greatest thing and nothing, nothing more need happen. Although I’d like to get wealthy. I’d like Trump to be removed from office physically.
Did Dave ever come by your dressing room before the show or ever have any conversations off camera? Because I know, and I’ve mentioned this before, Brian Regan, somebody I know asked him, what is Dave like? And he went on the show so many times. And he was like, I wouldn’t know. I never saw him, uh, talked to him off the stage after my set. We never had a conversation. Did you have a conversation with him?
I was lucky because I was presenting the field piece I taped. So During the film piece, we would have, you know, like I would have brief conversations, but I would say like one time I said to him, uh, I said, how you doing? He goes, I could drop dead tomorrow. It’s like when he was kidding, right. He’s like very, very funny. And I, he was always, oh, wait, wait. One thing that happened on the show, my name was called and Biff thought I wasn’t supposed to be out there. And so he blocked me from going on the show, blocked me from going on. I wrestled with Biff. I got out on the set and I could see Dave was concerned. And the first thing I did was I sold Biff down the river, sold him down the river. I said, I don’t know. Biff was trying to stop me from entering the stage. I did feel bad about that for a while, but I’m not going down for that.
Going down for that.
The other thing was, yeah, I mean, just like, so during the, when the But it was always brief things. Oh, when I got hurt, I don’t know if you know, I got hurt off the, um, what was it, a pogo stick that
You did a bit.
I got really hurt, really. I mean, I mean, I could have been really more hurt that they had just thrown a helmet on me and then just, and then just the helmet, if they hadn’t thrown a helmet, I think I could have, I really could have cracked my skull. Well, he kept saying, you have to, he says, you have to sue us. When I was coming in to talk about it, because I showed the film, he goes, you have to sue us. Absolutely. And then even to the point where I forgot who the executive producer was getting annoyed at, at Dave for encouraging me to sue. Meanwhile, I went through their workman’s comp and my, I said, yeah, I went through their workman’s and my mother, my mother’s going, don’t, what are you doing? Don’t, don’t upset them. I said, no, mom, I was literally. Literally on the job, and got hurt.
When you do these remotes, who would be with you, other than the director, which writers, would Tom Ruprecht be with you?
All the writers at one point would take a shot at it, but the main person, and the only person, was Jeremy Weiner. Who iwas one of the writers on the show is a really good friend of mine. I mean, we really got to be great friends. And a lot of the things that people say to me when they see me on the street, they go that my love, this line, you know, like what about the one about psychics? I was just, it was his line. Uh, so. It’s always a learning curve in the sense that, the reason why it wasn’t as much a learning curve as it could have been was like, I know I’m on the greatest show in the world. I know these guys are the greatest writers in the world. And Jeremy just happened to be one of the fine, hilarious and incredible human being, but you’re still like your ego still goes, Oh, maybe I can. And I’m, of course I am. I was allowed to addlib, but thank God they were there. You know, cause they did provide so many of the actual, you know, punchlines.
You did at least one of the Super Bowls. What was that like doing the remote?
That was so scary. That was scary, but it was, I remember that I had, I don’t think I did more than one, right?
I’m looking… and I’d have to, I can check.
I think I did more than one because I did one in Detroit. That was, that was in Detroit, which was the. Which was the Pittsburgh Steelers winning. And then I did another one where Peyton Manning lost. I think Reggie Bush won. So I needed at least two, if not more,
You did two. And then you did two Yankees spring, spring trainings, right?
That’s yeah, exactly. And I did one and one met spring training.
I’m looking at this, the psychics. You met with the Barbie, the collectors, the life coaches…
The Barbie collector was an interesting gentleman. Or the thing I want to say is that it was scary to go to the Super Bowl. It wasn’t like I ever. Okay, this is my favorite story. So I don’t know if I can, I can tell this story. Uh, you might get, let me see, could I get sued for this? I don’t know, but here’s the thing. We’re at a, we’re at a shoot and Sumner Redstone comes out. And I would say, and I’ll testify that he was very, very, very drunk. He comes out. Well, I never liked him, did not like him that much when he was alive. And I even read books about him to back up my feelings. But he comes out of this room and he’s like, uh, Hey, you want to, you don’t want to, you want to take my picture? We have these big cameras. He doesn’t realize that we’re not like just taking snaps. So I go, no. So I start talking to him. I start interviewing him. He’s very drunk, but he’s, I’m not trying to sandbag them, but immediately after that, Les Moonves was at the same Super Bowl, but caught our eye and then told us it never made, it never made, uh, on the show. And that’s just, I’m just saying, I know it’s unusual to hear something negative about Les Moonves, but I’m saying there was another side.
At least it won’t affect your career anymore.
Well, I was, and I was kidding because he’s, he’s a horrible, I read his book too. He’s a horrible, not his book, but about him. He’s not a good, not good.
So you do these remotes and you’re getting so much stage time. I didn’t want to ask you about Jay because you would, in Montreal and interviews, you would mention Jay sometimes, uh, Leno. And my guess, and I tell me if I’m wrong, is that you, I’m guessing that you loved his standup and his Letterman appearances leading up until he started guest hosting for Johnny?
Absolutely. Was a huge fan of him in the eighties. So was Letterman. He was, he became Leno on Letterman. I’m not saying he became, but that was the best format for him.
Exactly.
He was the loosest on that. No, all comics of my, of my generation, most of us loved, idolized Leno, that he was that funny.
I was just gonna say, normally, if Jay finds out somebody doesn’t like him or says something, goes to the person to try to resolve it. Did he ever try to do that with you?
Oh, well, this is it. You know, I’m sorry that my stories come out like old alte kacker anecdotes from the motion picture hall. But this is the actual true story. My wife was an amazing photographer. She was doing a, a promo, you know, someone was shooting some promo shots and the mother of the, of the, of the actor she was shooting had said, Jay Leno is right down the street. His car is broken down. Anybody want to go down and look at that? So to me, it seemed. Oh, yeah, that’d be funny to look at Jay Leno. So we started walking towards him and she starts saying, what do you like Jay Leno? I go, no, no, I do not like him. Uh, I put him down all the time in my act. She goes really? And then, but what I don’t, and she goes, you want to cross the street to get closer? Cause he’s at the corner. I said, sure. What I didn’t realize is. I didn’t realize that she was gonna make a beeline for Jay Leno. I walked past them as if I was walking and I was walking into under the freeway to an area where you would normally not be walking. And I see her going up and go, you know, talking to Jay Leno ’cause she loves him. And then he goes, yeah. And he goes, Andy Kimble? Yeah, Andy, that’s the guy who ha he got my name on. That’s the guy who hates me. So then I sheepishly come back up and I go, yeah, hi Jay. I go, nah, it’s okay To hate. It’s okay to hate. And so. He obviously knew that. And one time I introduced him at a, uh, benefit that we were both doing. And I said, ladies, gentlemen, Jay Leno, and you might know him from the time she goes, “it kills you to do this, doesn’t it?” But you know, he doesn’t, uh, as the time has gone along, I just don’t see the, I think I’m still angry at what happened with the, with the Letterman show, but it’s hard to stay angry at, uh, I mean, if you are a member of his, of, of the staff of Conan and thought you were moving out to do the, there’s a lot of reasons to stay with a grudge against Leno for saying he was going to go and not going, but I mean, I have a lot of things to say about the way he, he, he, conducted himself professionally. And, you know, he had Helen Kushnick as his manager and he absolutely wanted that show and prevent the day from happening, but in the long run, that doesn’t matter, it only mattered at the time and he, and he he’ll always be someone who was funny, but he’s always someone makes up stuff like those books. He read, you know, the books he writes, he goes, uh, one time he has a book. He goes, yeah, this guy was in Italy. He tells these stories on TV. He goes, I was in Italy. And, uh, I look down and, uh, I see someone’s wallet. And, uh, I look at it and there’s money in it. And I hold it up. I go, is Shaznow here, it’s for Shaznow here. And this guy comes up and, are you kidding me? The guy runs up to him and says, it’s his wallet. He also claims early in his career to have left a big bag of money at the improv and drove back to get it, I’m just saying he’s a tall tale teller. I think he’s a, he’s also a wonderful man who gives you charity, who loves his wife and is not a bad, he’s not a bad person. I wouldn’t think. It’s all within the, the, the dislike is not, is all within our context of the group.
Yeah. You basically would tell him, I’m guessing it’s not personal. It’s just once it’s just The Tonight Show, it just wasn’t your cup of tea.
Uh, well, but it was personal. I mean, uh, one of the guys, I was told one of these guys who passed, he passed away. I don’t know if it’s true, but I was told, uh, by source, I can’t reveal that, uh, Rick Ludwin tried to keep me off of Conan. I think Rick Lewin died not that long ago.
He did. He died a, a couple years ago. He tried to keep you off of Conan?
Yeah, that, so I was told that he was trying to keep me off of Conan because of the things I said about Jay Leno. And I’m sure they didn’t love the character on Conan, Little Jay. Did you ever see that?
Oh, I did see that. Yeah. I’m sure that they didn’t. That was the same guy who did the mini kiss. Um, he was the mini Gene Simmons. They had a, uh, a kids, a kids trivia band with little people that would play around the country. And that was the same. I think Andy Blitz told me that. I think Andy Blitz came up with that idea for, um, Conan mini Jay Leno.So they kept you.
I think they, you see, I have a, you know, I don’t remember what I forgot now. You know what I mean? But I think absolutely. They stopped putting me on Conan.
You did seven of them, but at one point they stopped. Okay.
They stopped.
What was it like doing Conan’s show?
I loved it. I loved it back in the old studio. Well, I actually, no, no, here’s the thing. I love Conan. So I think someone like Rick Ludwin or something was doing it above Conan. I don’t think it was like even Conan may have even known it because I think Conan, I always loved him and he was like the, I think Conan. in New York. And then I did do him out in LA once when he came out to LA. So I never had a problem with him or, or felt angry at him about it. It was always, I knew these suits at NBC. I resonated with him so well. I thought it was so hilarious that I didn’t, and I was so like, like, didn’t realize what was going on, but he had me stay in his dressing room after the show. And he was just, you know, entertaining me and all this kind of stuff. And I really goes, where do you live? I’m in LA, you know? And I realized after that that If I had lived in New York, he probably would, I really think he would have offered me to write on the show.
That would have been something. Um, yeah, you would have been great at that. I could, I could totally see.
Or if I had even pursued it or known that he was doing it.Maybe I just had no idea until a long time afterwards. I put it together in my head, or I could have even said, Oh, I’ll stay at my mother’s house, you know.
You got a lot of Conan bookings, and then I know you were a contributor for The Daily Show and got good reviews. I read a newspaper review. That was, um, I think he did at least a few of them. How did that go?
I mean, you know, it’s like one of these things, like, as you look at Jon Stewart now, I mean, you don’t have to get into this, but just like the, the fact that he’s thinks Joe Rogan’s a nice guy and he says nothing, you know, the guy who did the joke about Puerto Rico, uh, being a garbage dump and that’s just, he’s just doing his job. I think that any reasonable person can conclude that he’s not the hero we thought that he was. And he was never. I mean, if the stories are true, which I don’t know, but I’ve heard it from so many sources that he tried to stop his show from going Writer’s Guild right in the middle of, uh, and I think people, we misunderstood him. We thought he was a hero who just went after Fox News, but he’s actually kind of a conservative guy. And if he’s recently, he’s really been, it’s almost been just so out of touch of him when he’s, uh, you know, said, I think Joe Rogan’s a nice guy, Joe Rogan’s not a nice guy. It’s not like a matter of, so it’s like, I see. So back then there was a lot of egos going on and Jon was fine to me because I was taping in LA. It, I’m pretty sure it was Ben Karlin, but Jon wasn’t going to object to it. Ben Karlin was like a guy who just, he kept trying to. I would do these things. I was TV guy, I was called. So I was doing these reviews as TV guy. And it was a really, you know, a lot of fun. They kept trying to like, they kept, you know, stepping on my jock as the housewives say, they kept, he kept stepping on my jock on, I don’t understand what is, you know, how does how you review television fit in with The Daily Show? I said, I don’t know. It’s like, you know, I’m just a reviewer. So, and of course it got in my head with it. And so eventually they, uh, I think because. I didn’t, because I think Ben Karlin didn’t like what I was doing, and I don’t think Jon Stewart got involved with it enough, but he was just like, fakely nice to me then. It wasn’t until after that that I realized all the stuff that he had been involved with, you know, his show, and uh, who was the guy that he had, um, Big feud with who tried to tell him about racism on the show.
Wyatt Cenac?
Yes.
Yeah. Wyatt went on, on Marc Maron’s show and, and, um, yeah, I talked about that. That made, um, big news. What was it like doing the Larry Sanders Show?
No, so that’s an example of a dream come true that happened because a dream, because of a dream come true. Uh, Rick Overton, the comedian Rick Overton was booked to be on that show. I was always. In love with that show. And I was friends with, uh, Judd Ap I knew Judd Apatow, Apatow really well. And in fact, Judd Apatow had written in an early version of Larry Sanders. He goes, and comedian, uh, Andy Kindler will be on the show tonight. And my, uh, back when I grew up in Whitestone, Queens, when I went to visit there, the, the, the gas station guy said, uh, Hey, I thought you were going to be on, you weren’t on. And people were, were upset because it didn’t happen. And so, and so that was funny. But then. Uh, Rick Overton canceled and I went right in. I was nervous, so nervous, nervous, nervous, nervous. Uh, but I think the, uh, the original storyline was about Rick Overton being taken off the show. So it was, I, of course, I was very hard on myself. Uh, like I was the first time I was on Letterman. Uh, but it went, I think, pretty good. And, uh, Larry Sanders was very nice. Garry Shandling was very nice. He was very nice to me. Like he. You know, I know that he could be, you know, if you saw the Judd Apatow documentary, you know, you know, he was not an easy person to get along, but he was very nice to me and he actually did, I think that his thing was just relax and I think that was needed. So I loved doing it. And I was with Janeane Garofolo all day. She’s my best friend. We started in the alternative comedy movement She’s like one of my best friends at the time, you know Because we’re all in the L.A. scene with Laura Milligan, Janeane Garofolo, Bob Odenkirk So the whole thing was a thrill.
It must have been amazing in ‘92 when you did the Young Comedians Special. 1992. It was Ray Romano. It was Janeane, uh Judd Apatow, Bill Bellamy, and yourself. And I think Nick DiPaolo, maybe, but what was that experience like?
Just as you would think it would be. Just like an amazing, amazing fairy tale type thing, you know, I will say to you now, I don’t think I was as good a comic back then as I am now, or even a few years after that, only in the sense that I wasn’t so much me on stage. I was very nervous. And so I kept thinking I wasn’t coming across and they had a shot between two shows. So like, if you look at it close, closely with the editing, my pockets out of my pants, my pockets in my pants, my pocket out of my pants, but the material I was very proud of and. I don’t think it’s good to go. I don’t think eventually when you get in the, get in your grave, I don’t know if I get in my grave, I guess that’s one way of doing it, but when you die at the end of your life, I don’t think it’s good to look back and go, I wasn’t funny that I was funny. Then I was funny. I don’t want to be over under sell that I could be a very funny person, but it was nerve wracking and very exciting. Dana Carvey was the host.
It was a big deal. I mean, it was enormous deal back then.
It was the big, it was the big breaking show back then. I think not, maybe not as much as it was earlier. Maybe that was when it was, see, cause what, when did that, when was it? 92?
1992.
That’s at the height of the comedy, kind of the height of the comedy boom. I, I don’t want to say I was a casualty of the high of the comedy boom, because I wasn’t, you know, everybody goes, Oh, you want a sitcom? Well, I would have liked this sitcom, but I didn’t, you know, I didn’t get a sitcom. It didn’t happen. I, you know, I was in a pilot, I was in this, I was in that. And so now I feel like I’m very proud of myself. I was always should be proud of myself. But. I think that I was a little bit, if you were looking at my career and go, where’s his Home Improvement, where’s his, this, I got… the comedy boom was starting to implode around then and they, uh, and they weren’t giving out the money last, they gave a million dollars, I think, to Hedberg and Hedberg used to do a joke about how, uh, how come when you’re a comedian, they want you to, you know, they want you to do like some, can you be a fireman? They never asked that about a chef. Yeah. You know, Oh, you’re a great cook. Can you, can you also sew? So, you know, there’s always a person in your mind. That’s, you know, if I was to say to you, I know I wouldn’t want anything more in my career. I’d be lying because there’s always that part of you. But when I look back at it now, I think I was so fortunate to be a part of this comedy movement. All these great people, Mr. Show and that alternative comedy boom, I mean, alternative comedy movement as a reaction to the comedy boom are both things that are probably forgotten now because people, when I perform and the kids don’t know that there was a comedy boom. They’re too young.
Probably maybe. not our audience, but yeah, it was definitely, it shook things up and it was just, it just imploded. And there was, I have to say here in New York city, I cannot believe the amount of comedy clubs. There’s never been more comedy clubs.
I think comedy is so, I mean, I’m sorry to keep it early. Comedy is so great right now. I would say the comedy is better than it’s ever been. There are more great, great comedians than there’s ever been. Just because you, there’s not as many filters on, you know, of course they’re, you know, you have people like Dave Chappelle who are. You know, right wing lunatics and they’re trying to make money on hate, but generally at the club level, you can be whoever you want to be. Uh, and so that means it’s, there’s still so many shows. Also, when I was playing, you could never see really when I started on the road, you couldn’t see online. You couldn’t, so you would go to a show, you didn’t know who you were going to. So like, I used to do a joke about how the clubs would have these contests. Hey, wonderful. You’ve, you’ve won our answer the phone contest. Uh, you, uh, you just won the right to bring you and 40 people who know even less about comedy than you do to the club this week and so like. That happened in the nineties. Bill Hicks, who would love these clubs in Chicago. I think The Firm, I forgot the one he loved, uh, The Funny Farm, maybe they became, the crowd’s turn. Some of the funniest stuff is Bill Hicks, like once he’s in Dallas and he’s going, can I get, can I get this answer here? Did JFK get shot in Dallas or did he commit suicide? So, um, there was a whole bunch, but now I think it was like kind of a golden age, but the golden age has been a while. But you think it’s been happening for a while?
It’s definitely, it’s definitely, I’ve noticed, um, over the years. I mean, maybe, yeah, it’s just, there’s so many more outlets. And I remember when I first moved to New York, I knew pretty much all the stand ups. I knew who they were. And now it’s just like.
When’d you move? Oh goodness. I’m dating myself, but I went to college here in 94 and I moved here and I was just a,
You went to Col. Okay. Where’d you go to college?
NYU. Oh, see, I knew you, you were planning that the whole time, just so you could come down there. Ah, boom.
But I’ll tell you this, I, I got into NYU only because I was an acting major and my grades, my SATs were 300 points lower than they wanted. And my grades were like a point or two, but they, for acting majors and I had a very good interview. I am very good with that. And, and I asked that they make an exception. They put me on academic probation for a year.
Oh, wasn’t that great then? I mean, didn’t you, weren’t you happy about that? I mean, what a great place to go. Don’t you think?
It was pretty amazing. I mean, The Boston Comedy Club, I was a door guy for a while. And that’s before it was like after Neal Brennan, after Sarah Silverman was gone. But, uh,
How about Eugene? Was it after Eugene or with Eugene?
Is that Mirman? Yeah. Um, I, gosh, I think that might’ve been after.
Yeah. Well, he never played. He never played. You said that the Boston Comedy Club?
That was Barry Katz’s club on third street in the city of New York.
That’s what I meant. Oh yeah. That was terrible. That was a terrible, that was a rough club. I don’t know if you ever played there. Yeah. I met Chappelle there.
Chappelle was on every night. I mean, when I was there and I was the door guy,
I thought you were talking about Nick’s for a second. I said,
Oh no, no, no, no. I was talking about that. I was going to ask you about Letterman. When you would do your remotes, would they let you sit in it on the edit or give you give edit notes at all?
I had nothing to do with the editing. So it was all their decisions, but I got to see when each, you know, like, cause it’s done the day of the show. Sometimes I got to see what was in, you know, what was in, I got to see the process. And of course the process is, is so on one level discouraging. Cause they always, he always, Dave does, he chops it down, down, down, down. Like, and then there’s always this story, you know, there’s like a joke on the show. Maybe we’ll put it into pods, you know, that you can look at if they had been more up to date online back then, maybe they would have sooner put them, the footage into other, but it never happened., but I knew, but again, it was like a dream come true because I knew it was the best people who were editing me and they’re only going to edit me for the comedy.
You’re in the best hands for sure. What was it like when you did that remote with the training to be a U. S. Marshal?
That for me, that was like, again. I’m a very, very progressive, very progressive politically, but when you go on something like that, you just, you just put everything, you’re all of a sudden wanna, I wanted to be whatever they would be for that day. So I did like, you know, takedowns of people. I learned how to shoot a gun and it was just, it’s just incredible for that day. You feel like. There’s nothing but exciting and they were all they all wanted to be on camera. So they were all funny. They made it the most wanted thing for me.
You got to do so many amazing things. I saw you do stand up once at the Hudson Theater And you, you did this joke about Robin Williams and I was wondering if, I don’t know the exact joke, but it was something about the quality of life and your fans versus his fans. Do you, do you remember?
Oh boy. I don’t, I don’t even remember. Uh, I, I, you know, when Robin passed away, I kind of like had, I think not that I blocked myself out from it, but I had so many Robin, you know, cause my whole thing was, he was so tied into the crowd. And people didn’t realize, and I know you as a comic, I realized that. So like, for example, one of his shows, he’s like saying, Oh, he’s making. So, so to me, what his problem as a standup was that he had to get laughs every second. And so hence, forget about the fact that he, you know, he admits to have taken material and all of this kind of stuff, but ultimately he was a very, you know, to many people is a very nice guy. He was an excellent actor. He was a very, very funny guy. Um, so I made fun of him. Like one of the things he did was, uh, he goes, he would, he would try something to be fun, it didn’t go funny. He would switch to something hot. So he was making some religious observation on some special and it wasn’t, uh. Well, who, what do I know? I’m Episcopalian. That’s like Catholic light. And then he started doing, uh, he did this a lot, the, the meter thing. Whoa, engaging the audience. So for people, I wish I could remember the actual, well, I think I did them on TV. I don’t remember what they are.
You did something to the effect of, it was a Comedy Central special at the Hudson theater. And it was something like that you’re talking about your fans versus Robin Williams fans. The average life is for your fan is it was something like I don’t know it was 12-15 years like until they die or something or like and then Robin Williams fans live till they’re 85. But then you said but the quality of life is just so much better I think that was the punch that you said. The quality of life.
Okay. That’s cool. You got it. You got it down. I re I kind of have a faint memory of it now. There’s so many lines I’ve forgotten that I wish, uh, that wish, like I remember that show Tompkins Square they had?
Of course, Jeff Ross.
Jeff?
Jeff hosted, right? Oh, Jeff Ross. He was one of the hosts at least one of the season.
Oh, I don’t remember him. My joke at the time was, uh, Comedy Central figured that the only thing that was missing from stand up was depth of field. So I had so many jokes like that, that were based on, like, I was a writer at The WB for a couple of years. So, you know, I had a line, a line I actually submitted when I wrote there. It was like, uh. Death is easy. Comedy is hard. At the WB, it’s virtually impossible. You know, so, and these, all these lines. And of course, I don’t need to be a guy at a party recalling them all, so, I guess. I don’t have to, uh, aggregate them.
What’s your favorite moment or moments from being on the set of Everybody Loves Raymond? You did 27 of them.
I think the ones, it was kind of hard sometimes because, again, I had a lot of my own issues going on. So sometimes I felt frustrated, like, Why won’t they? Uh, you know, like, ’cause Ray could improv whatever he wanted, but it was clear that I could not, I was not allowed to improv. So I think that I had a lot of weird feelings that now that I see is just like, yeah, well it wasn’t your show and this is the way, this is the way it went. But that’s a small part of what I learned from that show, which is just that you learn. Uh, I love acting and I love all kinds of acting and you learn the difference of when you actually can, the laughs are coming from the audience. And I don’t know if I’ll ever make a show like that again, but it was, it was that incredible combination of stuff I’d done in theater in college. And, and stand up and this, it was like amazing. Cause it was the number one show. So, and also Ray Romano, he’s not paying me to say this. He’s one of the, he might be the nicest person on the planet and people thought we were friends going in. Well, we were not enemies, but we were both in the same young comedian special. But I started in LA. He was in New York. I had no knowledge of him. I was friendly with Phil. The, who created the show.
No, he’s a great guy. Phil Rosenthal is a great guy.
Yeah. Great guy. Yeah. And we met for breakfast and he put me on the, and he put me on the show and Phil had very specific things about what he wanted to see. So I think he was a great director and the times I, so, but I think it was just hard, so I was feeling like, oh, I can’t, um, be like Robin Williams on the show. Within that context, I think the episode where I make, uh, where Deborah makes something good. And I say, oh yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, you made a thing in work and, you know, it was good because, you know, you know, Raymond at work is like talking and so I had to go through this. What does Raymond at work saying about me? That one was really good. Cause I felt like I got the acting down or I felt good about it. And the other one is a Wheel of Fortune where I’m watching Wheel of Fortune and Ray’s trying to bring his office into the home and then just at one point, uh, Ray pushes me on, uh, In my little rolling chair and that’s just like i’m doing i’m doing a Schtick now i’m doing actual and also I got to kiss Christine Cavanaugh. That was fun too, on that one. Uh, she she passed away. But what was that one? Where she I kissed her and i’m like a person, It was a Christmas show and it was about how um, um, something about you know, and at some point I kiss her And then I walk away like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, something like that. It was, that was hilarious.That was really a lot of fun. All the stuff with the guys was fun.
They still hold up, which is what Phil was trying to do. Like kind of like the Honeymooners he did and not do topical. Uh, and it really does. Hold up, what was it like doing that sitcom with Bob Saget and not only Bob Saget, but future Oscar winner, Brie Larson?
Well, this is just unbelievable because I, again, had, I have probably made, not specifically making fun of Bob Saget, but, but, but making, I’m sure made fun of the Bob Saget, you know, I’ve been friendly recently with Howie Mandel, I used to make fun of Howie Mandel mercilessly, but I had seen Bob, I’d seen him be funny in context, I don’t remember, very dirty he was, but I remember him being very, very funny. Uh, and it wasn’t the home video thing and it wasn’t the, um, I never even watched the thing in the Full House thing. So I was very scared when I got in the show is very, you know, Jonathan Katz who wrote that to create that show. I, you know, I auditioned for it and I was very excited to get it, but I was always nervous one time. This is a totally true story is, um. Jonathan Katz, I’m on the phone with him. And he goes, Andy, I had a very interesting experience today. Uh, I drove a woman, uh, in the lot from one place to another, and she goes, well, I’m a big fan of yours. And I said to her, would you remain as big a fan of mine? If I told you that I have cast, that Bob Saget has been cast in the lead role of the show? So it was like, I think everybody know it going in knew that this was, you know, he’s a, was a mainstream kind of guy, but it was really embraced. And of course, once Bob, you know, after Bob died, I was crushed by it because I, and I was, I had a relationship with him. You know, he came on the shows. I always thought he, I loved him. I thought he was really, and I was. With him where he was just incredibly funny in all the wrong ways all day long, you know, and Brie Larson couldn’t have been a nicer. And the thing is you could not have told from that where you, I wouldn’t have rooted against her, but I don’t think you could tell from that show how great she eventually became, uh, but she was such a sweet person. And then Kat Dennings was on there too. Kat Dennings and.
It’s amazing. Yeah. She’s going to be on a new show and then you have Brie Larson winning her Oscars. And then Bob’s Burgers that pretty much opened you up then to another generation. I’m guessing.
Uh, well, here’s the thing that’s amazing was I did Dr. Katz, which nobody does remember. You did three of them. You did three, I believe Dr. Katz. And I was friends with Loren Bouchard working on Dr. Katz. Um, after that show, there was, which nobody remembers. Most people don’t remember. Uh, and I’m not trying to be like an old guy. I was like, why can’t I remember Philo T. Farnsworth? There was a show called Home Movies and that show I started to get recognized from a lot, uh, like people would find me and they remember my name from that show. So that was another generation. I think that people who did, you know, and I was only on a couple of those and then I got the call to be on Bob, you know, I auditioned for, no, I did the pilot is what happened and I thought it was going to be a regular, but, uh, Fox was like, you know what, let’s keep him a recurring character.
Yeah. And you did a lot of them.
I’ve done a lot of them. I they’re still going right. Don’t, don’t scare me.
Yeah, no, no. You, it’s an amazing longevity.
And I did it with a great John. I mean, there’s no greater voice person than Jon Benjamin in the world. I think.
Oh yeah. Jon Benjamin’s really funny. He’s he’s, um, yeah. Dr. Katz. Whenever people, people call him H. I don’t know where the H came from. I just know him as Jon Benjamin, but
I know where it came from.
Where did it come from?
I would call him Jon H Benjamin too. There was an actor called John Benjamin or something.
Oh, is that why he did it? I wasn’t sure.
He’d do it for SAG, yes.
Yeah, that makes sense. Michael J. Fox, Michael, Michael A. Fox, but had to be, there’s a Michael Fox and then there was a Michael A. Fox. So he picks the J.
But that’s exactly where he’s done. I’m absolutely sure that. Maybe I’m wrong. I never asked him, but I’m absolutely sure that he didn’t walk around going, uh, call my H Jon.
No, Andrew Kindler.
I used to do this joke where I said, uh, the joke was, uh, Lee Harvey, Harvey Oswald. He took the name Lee Harvey Oswald because there was already a Lee Oswald in the Murderer’s Guild.
How often are you getting up these days in L. A.? You could.
I’m starting to get up again, but not a lot. Not a lot.
Why?
Pandemics. Because when the pandemic stuff, I have never had COVID and my wife and I, and I was like, my wife, you know, I like doc, I’m like a doctor’s without boundaries. I’m a Jew without a doctor’s without borders. I’m a Jew without borders or boundaries because I constantly tell people I’m 68. Oh, you want to use me in your show? Did you know I was 68? You know, I, or I shopped my, my wife in a gluten free place in my shop for my wife. Right. I’m just getting cookies. I can’t eat the cookie because I have type 2 diabetes. That kind of thing.
How long do you think it’s going to take for you to get back to where you, you might’ve been?
Oh, I see what you’re saying. Yeah. I will never go back. And that’s the thing. I don’t want to make it seem sad because I was on the road from like 30 years, like 20, you know,
Exactly.
For so many weeks. I don’t miss that. And unfortunately or fortunately, uh, COVID changed everything for me. You know, I lost, you know, I have one family. I lost a couple of my family members, not from COVID, but, um, well, thank you. But very at the beginning of the pandemic and not even from the pandemic. So it just made me totally look at my life differently. And so, uh, I don’t, even though it was fun to go to like the Comedy Attic and where is it, it’s in Bloomington and where Bloomington is just a great club. I’m not that crazy about flying right now. And even people who aren’t in the business, aren’t crazy about flying right now. So. I plan to do it in New York. I mean, in L.A.
You’ve been doing it forever. What was it like doing a road gig with Norm Macdonald in Toronto in the late 80s?
Can you believe this? Uh, I did a road gig with him in Saskatoon with me and myself and Brent Butt. Uh, who’s hilarious, who did Corner Gas in Canada, we were on the show with Norm Macdonald. And it’s like, I can remember to this day, I was in Winnipeg, and I just couldn’t believe, what is he saying? He’s like, he was like, every time he would say the name of something. So that was pretty amazing to get. To be, to find someone so hilarious, so early, I learned, I met a lot of funny people because I did Western, I did Yuk Yuks in the West of Canada for a few years. That was a big club. Yeah. Yeah. And that guy’s like, uh, there’s a little bit of a, I’m not saying he’s a, what is it when you say you can only work for me or you’re fired? One of those, he does.
Oh, yeah. Really, he was one of those people?
Mark Breslin. He took a liking to me.
He booked the comedians, I believe when Joan Rivers was doing her Fox TV show.
I wouldn’t be surprised.
Yeah. The Late Show. Yeah. That’s amazing. Um, Andy. Andy Kindler, thanks for doing this. And
I hope I didn’t go on longer and long and too much and interrupt too much. Cause I was such a joy talking to you.
Oh, thank you. No, this was amazing. I’ve been, I’m really, really grateful. Um, just, I mean, as a fellow Dave admirer and somebody that worked at the show and that just watched you so many times and got to see you at the Hudson Theatre. This was a thrill. So I’m grateful.
Thank you. I hope we keep in touch more.
I’d like that.
