Before he hosted his own late-night show, and before he wrote some of the most beloved episodes of Seinfeld, and before he joined David Letterman’s writing staff, Spike Feresten worked as a receptionist at Saturday Night Live.
This week on Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff, Mark welcomes Feresten back to the show, this time to talk about his very early career at SNL, where his duties included working the door at the show’s legendary after-parties, and serving as a background performer in some now-classic SNL sketches. He also discusses returning to the show as a guest writer when Jerry Seinfeld hosted in 1999, and how he came to pen the standout sketch of that episode, the Oz/Seinfeld pretape.
Feresten also describes the genesis of his Spike’s Car Radio podcast, and why sometimes it’s better to not meet your idols (we’re looking at you, Bill Murray),
Click play on the embed below to listen now, or find Inside Late Night With Mark Malkoff on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Dive Deeper:
- Watch and subscribe to Spike’s Car Radio on YouTube
- Follow Spike on Instagram and Facebook
Show Transcript:
Mark Malkoff: Spike Feresten. Thanks for coming back.
Spike Feresten: It’s good to be here. Thanks for having me.
I told you, um, you were my first guest. Um, you were my Bill Murray.
Wow.
And I said that I wouldn’t bother you for six months and it’s been six months. So I just, I waited. I was a man of my word. Uh, this time, I’m glad, I’m glad that we’re back. I’m a huge Saturday Night Live fan of the time when you were at the show as a receptionist. I feel like the writing and the cast, it was just amazing. They would throw you in sketches occasionally. What sketches were you in that you remember in the background?
I was in a Sprockets. I remember being, uh, on set with, uh, Phil Hartman, you know, I don’t even remember the sketch, but I remember he was right at my feet and I was facing the camera and they were counting down live and he was banging me on the knee. It was like the very first time I had been on television. I was like, Phil, Phil, you’re going to, I’m going to, I’m about to throw up anyway. Stop, stop. So, it was always really fun. I always get to fill in an interesting backgrounds. I think I was in a sketch with David Spade, uh, where we were, uh, I can’t remember that one either, but we were, uh, you know, it was always a good time. I would show up every Friday night just to hang out even when I wasn’t working there anymore, just to see if I could get thrown into stuff.
It was the Nelson Brothers, it was you and Spade, it was Alec…
The Nelson Brothers, that’s right, the Nelson Brothers. Because I, just because I looked like one of them. Yeah.
Is that why?
I was and there but I would love to I would love to know you know Their catalog system wasn’t really up to date at that point, but I was in every weekend in different sketches You know some not so memorable, but I’d love to have a look at that stuff
Yeah, that was February of 91 which I thought you were gone by then. That was Alec Baldwin Baldwin, Whitney Houston. And that was the Sinead O’Connor Awards.
Correct.
It was Phil was playing. Um, Sinatra, Carvey was McCartney. Mike Myers is Phil Collins. Jan hooks, of course, is. Is Sinead, but that was with the writer of the piece, the, is the one that would come to you or was it whoever was in charge of the extras or how did that work?
Yeah, they didn’t, they didn’t really approach extras. I think Smigel at that point did say, Hey, you know, you kind of look like a Nelson brother. I didn’t know who they were and said, Hey, do you, would you want to be in a sketch? And I was like, yeah, sure. You know, at that point I was writing for Letterman, but I just, You know, I still knew everybody on the show at SNL, and I loved, I didn’t really want to go out on the weekends, so I would just go back and hang around the show and, you know, see Sinead O’Connor, or see whoever was performing, and if I got into stuff, that was always, like, the best kind of weekend for me, you know?
Yeah, you’re in the building, and I know that you were in a Sweeney Sisters sketch as well. In the background, but that’s fun that they, they let you.
How did you find that out?
I do so much research. I can find out and email you
That, that I would love to see that one as well. They would just write you in the writer. It was always up to the writer. He would pick extras or they said five extras. And some of whoever’s doing the extra casting would just say, Hey, do you want to be one? And here’s what I kind of remember about it, is.,, You know, I was so excited to be at 30 Rock and around TV people and I didn’t grow up in entertainment and it was, you know, mind blowing to me that I would be in a sketch, and I would always call everybody and, you know, before the dress rehearsal, go, “Hey, I’m in a sketch. You gotta watch, you gotta watch.” There’s no DVRs or anything. And then half the time that sketch would get cut. And then everybody would call you the next day. You couldn’t call him at like one in the morning to go, Hey, yeah, the sketch get cut, but you’d get a dozen phone calls. And I learned very quickly. It’s like, don’t tell anybody anything. The only calls that you should get that are fun to get are the next day. “Hey, I saw you.” Butthe flood of calls what are you talking about are you lying to me you know why would you be on a live call those aren’t good those aren’t good call.
So how soon from when you’re doing your intern and then you were receptionist when did you start working the parties outside the door and when did that happen?
I think that was part of reception duties so they had two people uh you know my friend Sandy Restrepo who’s now a director um she and i manned the reception desk. Or womaned or personed or however you’d say it and you know, we’d split the schedule and there were times where we were both there and Sandy, I think, helped out a little more with production. She wanted to be involved in script and writing as far as kind of distribution and, and, you know, that side of the production. I really wanted to be involved in the writing, writing of it. And so we kind of split up duties and the party was just one of those things, you know, you know, do you want to be a doorman in charge of the SNL party with Susie Drasnan, who’s on staff, who’s, you know, still a friend of mine. “I was like, yeah, sure. I mean, I don’t know anybody in here, so yeah, this’ll be a lot of fun.” And, you know, the very first night, I think the story you’re referencing there, you know, here comes the president of NBC, Brandon Tartikoff comes in, big party going on. He leaves at around four in the morning, just wasted. Says goodbye, high fives me, dashes across the street, cruises like T. J. Hooker over the hood of the car, and gets into his limo with like two hot l l ladies. Over the car? Over the hood. He was feeling really good. Feeling really good. T. J. Hooker’d right across that hood. And I said to Susie, I go, “I’m in the right place. This is exactly where I want to work. This is network television.”
Who are some of the people that just show up? Cause you, I’m guessing you have a clipboard with names and then do people have passes as well? Do they say Saturday Night Live after party that they have to get, or is it, how, how does it work?
I think there was kind of a general list, yeah, about, uh, of the people who should and should be in, but we were also expected to kind of know who was with who, you know? So, so if Sinead O’Connor shows up, we were expected to kind of know these were her six or seven people who were also with her today.
If I show up at my, and I say my name’s Mark Franken, you’re going to let me in because you’re afraid that this might, I might be related to Franken? Or is it, how does that work?
I will just go in and ask. Okay. There were two of us. Yeah, but someone would know right away. Someone would know it at the time. It wasn’t really that overheated. I’m sure it’s a little different now, but…
It is. Yeah, it’s, it’s strange. It wasn’t really until I guess the Wayne’s world phenomenon that it really became and maybe like Sandler and Spade, that it became a little bit different than with the parties. But when you were there, who were some of the, the people that would, that would just show up randomly? You’re at the door. Is it like Mick Jagger or people just kind of showing up randomly and…
Yeah, not regularly, but yeah, yeah. They’re the famous faces that you just let in again. It’s like, you know, SNL was pretty laid back and didn’t, you know, you SNL family. So yeah, anybody who you kind of knew. Was coming or occasionally Susie would get a message. Hey, you know from Lauren. Hey, so and so is gonna show up Paul McCartney is gonna come by and you know, yeah, we don’t stop them and go ID, please.
Was there anybody that was… Was there anybody that you denied that you didn’t know who they were? Because there’s this story about Steven Spielberg, maybe 20 years ago, showing up at a party and one of the interns, for whatever reason, you know, you’re, I just looked on the list or whatever. I don’t think he named dropped Steven Spielberg, but it was one of those things. Was there no one like that with you?
There were occasionally there were a kind of NBC staffers that would try to get in and you know, I remember, uh, once and I don’t remember who they were, but they were part of NBC marketing or something and they weren’t supposed to be there and I told them they couldn’t come in and they were upset about it and, you know, right after that, we had a writer strike, which I wasn’t a writer at the time, but that put SNL right out of business, and I, you know, had no money saved up, so I had to go start bartending again down South Street Seaport, and who walks in but those three people again. And I went, Oh, Hey! A little change of circumstances for you. “What can I get you folks?” That, that was really, really humbling, fun moment for me. I love that.
You got Update jokes on for, for Dennis Miller. But what was that like going back in October of 99, when Jerry Seinfeld hosted with musical guests, this was the premiere with. With David Bowie, you went in with, was it David Mandel as guest writers that week? What was that like?
Mandel kind of muscled his way in on that one. It really, I remember it was, you know, Jerry called up and said, Hey, we’re doing SNL, I can bring a couple of folks along, you know, SNL is always kind of squeamish about bringing in other writers. So it’s a little bit delicate. Uh, Tina Fey was the head writer, who I’d never met, but instantly went, Wow, you know, what a, you know, what a writer. And, uh, but I think early on in the kind of LA let’s write sketch piece of it, it was me, Andy Robin, Greg Cavett, and maybe Jeff Schaefer. I’m not sure. I’m not sure, but it was only a couple of us. And then, you know, we, we, we came to New York and, you know, it was all cool. And Dave had worked there and he called up and said, “Hey, is there any way I can come by?” And I said, “Yeah, you know, it’s political. We don’t want to, we don’t want to, you know, bully the SNL staff. We’re kind of, you know, they’re already letting us bring a couple of folks in.” But I, you know, passed them a message along to Jerry and Jerry said, of course, and, you know, suddenly Dave showed up and I think that’s maybe when Berg and Schaefer also showed up. I mean, it was fine for us. We love, I mean, I love those guys, but I think in the end, the SNL staff was a little miffed. And I remember Tina Fey, who again, was really sweet. And, you know, I think we got along. But I remember her going, “You know, I noticed you put Rick Ludwin in a sketch.” Rick Ludwin was the NBC executive in charge of late night. And I go, yeah, yeah, I did. I did. She goes, “You, you really want to do that?” And I go, “Yeah, yeah, I, I really want to do that.” And she goes, “Okay.” And then she walked off. I don’t remember the sketch, but, but we ended up putting him in it. We, we love Rick and thought it would just be fun
That was shown at his memorial. I was there and he was, um, yeah, so delighted to do that. So you wrote that sketch, was that yours? What did you get on that week? If anything,
What sketch was it? Would you know what sketch?
Oh gosh. I’m like..
But yeah, anything that Jerry kind of brought in that we cast most likely it was our sketch. I know he did a bunch of sketches that weren’t ours, but he also did. You know, you hear that the writers that come along with, uh, hosts don’t ever get anything on the air. It wasn’t true for us. We, we had a bunch of stuff, uh, that we got again. I remember I wrote something, you know, I was still pretty fascinated with the Seinfeld, uh, finale, and how it hit the world, and how controversial it was. And at the time, there was a show on HBO called Oz, which was this gritty, uh, It wouldn’t even look gritty and real nowadays, but it was like what it’s really like to be in prison with these characters and, you know, I went, well, well, interesting, you know, the Seinfeld cast went to jail. What if they were transferred? What if Jerry was transferred to Oz? Oz is shot in New York. And he was transferred to Oz because people didn’t like the finale and you know, that was really, that was really my sketch that I pushed through and Lorne said, you know, I know, uh, or somebody at Broadway video, but I think it was Lorne hooked up. The Oz cast for us and said, you guys can go over there and shoot on their set. HBO is there. They’re shooting right now. So we brought Jerry over, dressed him as a prisoner and spent a couple hours on that set. Do you remember that show?
Oh, I remember it very well. I remember that that. It was so unusual that they actually did a tape piece that wasn’t a commercial James Signorelli type. Yeah, they would they do it now like two or three.
Um, well, we brought we brought Signorelli with us. Um, yeah, I’m pretty sure James Signorelli was the director on it. But what was fascinating for me was That show scared the out of me. Like, I mean, none of us want to go to prison, but that show just, you know, it was terrifying and I watched it like a horror movie. And so when I walked onto the set and I met the cast, I was that it was like literally visiting a prison. I remember being really scared. Most of the time
They played it so well with the cast. I mean, that’s what they play completely.
It was good.
And I feel like that, that was. That’s the piece that everyone was talking about. I mean, that one, I remember, um, Jerry did Mary Katherine Gallagher. I’d have to look back at the list, but that was, I think it was like the week after the 25th anniversary. Did you go to that? That was a big deal. The 25th anniversary.
I did. But I remember that sketch was called out by TV guide as they wrote it up as, you know, they do the cheers and jeers, sketch it, it was sketch of the year and I thought, all right. And I had to push it through. I, uh, with my little side, I really had to push it through. I go, guys, I think this is really big. But they’ve heard me say that a million times. And, and, and 75 percent of the time I’m completely wrong. But I was like, this one feels right. It just has the right vibe to it. So I was happy.
That was definitely the sketch that people talked about. Were you at Yeah. Do you go to music rehearsals? David Bowie is there. I know that you worked at the building forever, but like, is it somebody like that is on or when you worked at the show, would you go down to music?
Yeah. Yeah. All the time. All the time. But it was, you know, Bowie. I worked on Night Music with David Sanborn for a couple of years, which was Lorne’s show and Broadway Video’s show. And it was, you know, it was an amazing experience. And every week we had musicians from Eric Clapton to Sonic Youth to Miles Davis and you know, having gone to music school, yeah, anytime I could get my ass in for a music rehearsal and see Nirvana on SNL, you know, you, you had your moles. They’d say, Hey, Nirvana is practicing at three o’clock. You just leave your office and sneak on and watch and have these private shows. And it’s such an amazing experience. I mean, it’s, you know, when I think back, I don’t, I don’t think I’ll ever have an experience like that again, being part of, uh, SNL or being around it, being able to observe it like that. It really was an incredible experience.
You’re going from Berkeley and then you’re working the David Sanborn show and then you find yourself hanging out with Miles Davis. I mean, how many people, you know, can your age or whatever our age can say that, that they had time with him?
Yeah, yeah.
What a blessing that you’ve got to do.
Um, well, we didn’t hang out, you know, I shot something with him for night music. He had one line. I’ve, I’ve had a sore throat for 33 years. That’s all I did with him. I just did that. Weirdly, my mom saw that in an old episode three days ago and called me and said, did you shoot that Miles Davis thing? Yeah, I did. But I had grown up, you know, I had grown up listening to his music. My dad was a Miles Davis fan. And, you know, again, for, there was no, I had, I grew up in a working class town in Massachusetts. I had no connection to show business. None of it seemed real. So, you know, I just processed everything through a television set. So when you’re around it and you’re seeing it, Every day was kind of a gift
Who are some of the hosts that went through the building because you know, you come up to 17. You have to go past reception. Um, did you have any stories about some of the host or any interactions with them that stand out?
I remember well, the the top of season 13, which I think was my first season as a receptionist there, we had a fire.
Steve Martin!
Yeah, with Steve Martin on a Thursday night, and the fire alarm went off, and it was a real fire. And I just happened to be next to Steve, and he goes, what are we doing? And he goes, just follow those people. And I said, I’m going to stick with you. And he goes, why? He goes, because the star never dies and you, you’re the star of the show this week. So wherever you go, I think we’ll be fine. And we ran down the stairs all the way. It was, you know, it was a little fun, fun adventure. Um, you know, every, and you know, I don’t know, all the hosts were very, very different in how they kind of interacted with us. I, I, Again, I’m just a guy answering phones and helping out and bringing coffee, so I don’t have much, you know, to do with them. But just about everybody, I think, that we brought through there was terrific. You know, they could let their hair down, they could relax a little bit. You know, it’s the way Broadway Video and Lorne just creates this really fun environment that’s just all about this race to Saturday night and making people laugh.
Was it strange going back when you were guest writing with Seinfeld with Lorne knowing that you wrote The Bad Dancer on Seinfeld for Elaine based on him? It wasn’t public knowledge at that point when I was told about, I mean, I knew about it for a long time, but it was one of those like things with comedy people kind of just, and it wasn’t until a book came out a couple of years ago, a Seinfeld book that it was actually disclosed and stuff, but he didn’t hold, there were no grudges or anything.
No, not at all. No, not at all. I mean, I, I was not the only one who, uh, you know, created characters based on, you know, the iconic Lorne Michaels, Mike Myers, you know, I mean, so many people have done it and it, and it’s because, you know, you like the guy, you, you, you know, you respect what he’s done and, you know, uh, it just, You know, it’s hard to explain the creative process. If there’s something funny happening, you just want to get it out there. It’s not really about, do I want to do a character about somebody I know or not. It’s that, hey, this unique thing happened, and I think it’s a good story for this show. And it turned out to be, you know, a very good episode, I guess, I hear. You know, I don’t know. I, I, I would suspect he’s, he’s proud that he inspired it.
Your timing in your career is just, I just look at it and I’m just like, how does this happen? You’re working, you’re a bartender in Boston, at a seafood restaurant, it leads to an internship at Letterman. You know, you would think that you would have to be doing, maybe working in entertainment at an internship and slaving all summer. And maybe someone make a phone call and you get there. And then. I didn’t know this until recently that you are actually, cause you were at Letterman for those five years. You were over at the CBS Letterman and you had submitted to Seinfeld. You had submitted. They didn’t do packets though. I mean, they, they, specs, they did like ideas, right? But didn’t you submit and that you didn’t get it the first time. Is that correct?
Yeah, yeah, it’s true. You know, and the same for David Letterman’s show. I didn’t get in the first year there, but you know, comedy writing was not a thing back then. So if they needed new comedy writers, they would go to the existing comedy writers on these shows and go, who do you know? Who do you like? And I had been, uh, I think. You know, writing things here and there, I had done the Dennis Miller “Weekend Update” stuff, some stuff with George Meyer, uh, he put out this comedy newsletter with Bob Odenkirk and some other people, and I had written some things and gotten some things in there. So it was really George and Tom Gamble and Max Pross that would call me up all the time and go, hey, they’re looking for writers at Letterman, they’re looking for writers at Seinfeld, they’re looking for writers at The Simpsons, and here’s what you have to do to submit. But they really had to search for people that wanted to be comedy writers, so it’s not as magical as you, as you think. So, you know, with, with respect to Seinfeld, I put together 10 stories. I did kind of one and two line story ideas, real things that had happened to me and what I wanted to do type things. And you know, Larry and Jerry really liked him, but they only had one spot. And I think they hired Berg and Schaefer that year. They were already out there.
It was a good hire. And then you have this amazing job. Dave at the time was the hottest thing in television, but you still want to work for Seinfeld. So take me through this. Cause I’ve never heard you really talk about this, um, on a podcast. I saw one interview, I read one interview that you did, but I just, I really want to know behind the scenes is, so you’re at Letterman, this is, um, 53rd and Broadway, Seinfeld is a guest that night, and in your head you’re like, I don’t know if Jerry even knows who I am, he doesn’t know what I look like, but what are the circumstances, what exactly happens?
So this was after I had applied for the job and didn’t get the job. Jerry was on a few months after that. And it was a Friday night. And, uh, I get on the elevator after a long, horrible week. That’s what I remember. I was in a bad mood. Things weren’t going my way and I wasn’t feeling right. And we were on the 12th floor and Dave was on the 14th floor. So I get on the elevator on the 12th floor and who’s coming down from saying goodbye to Dave but Jerry Seinfeld and one of the segment producers, uh, I think it was Mary. And I see them and give a little nod and turn around and face the door and in my head I go, these two have been talking, it was Mary Connolly. Mary Connolly and Jerry have been talking all week. There are a lot of things to say, and now they’re in an elevator, and any minute, she’s going to introduce me as one of the writers, and I hope I can get to the ground floor without that happening, because the guy behind me didn’t hire me, Jerry Seinfeld. And sure enough, on the 8th floor, Oh, Jerry, this is one of our writers, Spike Fursten, and I turn around, Oh, hello, and he goes, Oh, Spike Feresten, didn’t you do a submission for us last year? And I go, yes sir, yes sir, I did. And he goes, uh, whatever happened with that? And I go, shouldn’t you know that? Before I can stop myself, I went and I turned around and Mary’s eyes flared and I just got the hell out of there and I went, “Wow, just a perfect end to a sh*tty week where I am rude to the greatest comedian of our day. And, uh, my future boss, who I don’t know at the time.” Now, I, I have asked Jerry about that. I told him about that a few years back, and he just laughed. He goes, “I don’t even remember that. I go, of course. You’ve been living rent free in my head for years.”
But didn’t Jerry at that point say, you know what, why don’t you submit again in the elevator?
He did not. No, no, no. He didn’t. But I don’t know, maybe something happened, but the following year, they asked me to do another submission, which I said, absolutely not, and then my friends called me and go, come on, do it. It was the exact same thing that happened on Letterman. I got rejected and then I was mad. So, when they called the next time, I go, no, I’m not gonna give you. And both times, I listened to Gamble and Pross and George and they said, don’t be stupid. And I said, you’re right. And I did another submission. I flew out. I met Larry, just Larry and pitched him in his backyard. And he said, look, these are great. And he goes, uh, we’re going to hire you. I said, good, terrific. So I suspect Larry was really in charge of all of it at that point.
I love the fact that, and I, I don’t know any other shows that really do that that were half hour that would just go with the ideas that would, people would get hired based on that. And isn’t it true that you, um, in those ideas that you pitched that one of them was, If it wasn’t Soup Nazi, it was definitely Elaine being the bad dancer based on Lorne, right? Or what did you?
I did, yeah, I mean, somewhere in storage I have a half torn piece of yellow pad paper with all of those ideas on it. In my, in some of my original pitch, the only one that wasn’t on it was Soup Nazi. That one kind of came up as a hiccup. flop sweats after I was pitching and not succeeding early on in the room. But every other one, I think, was pretty much, uh, on that first page, which was interesting.
In terms of a Curb Your Enthusiasm, Larry, from one to ten, and during that meeting, where was he on the spectrum of what people would think Larry David?
Larry’s been pretty consistent. I mean, there’s Larry on the show, writing with Jerry, writing George, and then there was Larry in the lunchroom, you know, nothing but, I, you know, what I really loved about Larry, uh, he really just taught me to write from experience, without, you know, without much of a lesson for it, don’t think too much, he would, he would say what I said earlier, which is, you know, what happened to you last night that you haven’t stopped thinking about? Like today, I got into a little road rage with a construction worker down the street from the house and it, and it, and it, you know, the guy cut me off and I’m like, what are you doing? And he’s like that. And then we’re both sitting here like, okay, what’s the next move here? What are we going to do? You could tell the anger kind of diminished and I’m like, oh, I’m going to report you to security. And it’s like, I’m going to kick the sh*t out of you. And I’m like, uh, And then we’re smiling. Hey, all right, I’ll get out of the way. You know, there, there, any of these things that are sticking with you, you, Larry would say, just think about him a little bit. And there’s just something you would, uh, you wanted to do, but that you didn’t do, you know, and that’s usually where we would find stories. And the reason they didn’t really care about. It being longer than two or three lines is because Larry and Jerry that year, which is my first year, they were pretty much writing those things, you know, you could, you could do a first draft and you’d get a lot of stuff in, but they’re going to take it and make it their own. So what they found was not that people couldn’t write, is that they needed funny ideas to start off with. That was that that was the gold. There’s a guy who sells soup, but if you don’t order it right, he kicks you out. They call him the Soup Nazi. That was the hard part to find. Not people who could execute a draft.
One of the most successful sitcoms of all time, and I can’t believe no one else has tried to replicate that formula of writing.
Oh, oh, well, yeah. Why do you think? Development executives. Yeah, your favorite. They will say it all the time, but. you know, Jerry and Larry both start with if you don’t have a funny story shred, you’re not going to have a funny script. It’s such a simple idea. But if the story doesn’t make you laugh, just in pitching it on a bar stool next to someone in two lines, you’ve got nothing.
Were you on set on Seinfeld when Norm Macdonald, after he was fired from Update, Rick Ludwin went on set and a bunch of former
That was to me. Yeah, that was to me.
What happened? What happened?
It, you know, it was, uh, it was, we got to see Rick, the, uh, the NBC executive. So in the, in the, the months preceding, Norm was doing a bunch of jokes about OJ Simpson and frankly, in that year, and I don’t remember what season it was. Norm was the. The funniest guy on the show. You watched SNL for Norm. At least I did. His Weekend Update was, you know, for me, it’s got to be an, he’s probably my top Weekend Update host. I love the Weekend Update host, but Norm I think was my, was the most exciting to watch. Because I knew he was going to throw out jokes that had a little bit of an edge and the audience there might not even jump along with. So he was making those OJ Simpson jokes and other jokes and Rick had been saying to us. The day after, or whenever we’re on set next, Tuesday maybe, on rehearsal, the previous Saturday, did you see Norm? Did you hear this joke? Can you believe how funny Norm is? Norm is Burt Reynolds. Can you believe Norm? That’s all we were talking about. And then, then things come to a head with this O. J. Simpson joke stuff, and I, and I, I forget who was pushing it from the network there. They said you gotta, what, who was it?
Don Ohlmeyer.
Don Ohlmeyer, correct. And I’m only reading about it like anybody else is reading about it. And, and Norm, you know, gets suspended from the show or fired from the show. And Rick said, yeah, you know, it’s not a, it’s something to the effect of, it’s not a big deal, he wasn’t very funny anyways. And I was deeply offended by that lie that was, you know, that, that was, uh, I understand why Rick had to say that because he’s protecting his job here at NBC and we’re fairly high profile, but it was a lie to us. You know, we’d all been talking about. Norm for months and now suddenly he’s not funny, you know, that, that really was disappointing to me and I, you know, I had words with him about it and to this day, I have no idea how it ended up in a newspaper.
I didn’t know it did. I,
It floated out, it floated out somewhere into a newspaper.It’s bizarre. I can tell you, I, I didn’t leak it. I don’t know if Mandel did or somebody else, but it was me, Mandel, and maybe another writer.
I heard it secondhand from somebody at Saturday Night Live that had heard this story and then Rick just told me, you know, it was definitely, um, because the way I was told it was that it was very aggressive and I didn’t even know it was you or Mandel very in Rick’s face and pointed and Rick’s like, no, it was definitely, there was a conversation, but it was, it was polite, but they definitely were not happy.
Oh, yeah, of course. We loved Rick. Yeah, yes. I mean, no one could ever be angry at Rick. I was disappointed in him that he couldn’t at least have an off the record conversation with us, you know, at that point. We had such a history together, you know, like, hey, I agree with you, but politically, I can’t agree with you, and I’d appreciate it if you keep that to yourself, is the type, is the way I handle those situations, and as long as we’re talking, nobody’s hearing it, but, somebody heard it.
Somebody did hear it, who knows?
Yeah, yeah, but it wasn’t a fight, there were no fights on the Seinfeld set that I, that I can remember, no.
That’s a good thing. How did you tell Dave Letterman that you were leaving after five years? And could you think that he was hurt? I know that he gets attached to people and I know that you were friendly with him and you hung out with him. You drove cars with him.
Very much so, yeah.
Yeah. How was that?
No, Dave. Dave was very gracious about it. I mean, obviously I’m not the first person to leave that show, but he understood that I had Dave Letterman. Given pretty much everything I could give to that show that I that I was getting burned out. I think I was getting on the nerve of… I was getting on Rob Burnett’s nerves and and John Bekerman’s nerves. I’m not at that point like head writer material. So, you know, it’s just it starts not to be a good fit. And that’s only because of me and and my ambition and what I want to do. I didn’t, I didn’t leave Dave because I wanted to work for Seinfeld.I don’t know if you know this bit of business, I just wanted to get out of New York.
I didn’t know that.
And move to L. A., and I wanted a dog, and I wanted a car, and I needed to get out of an apartment. I wanted a house. I’d been living in apartments for many, many years.
At that point, you didn’t really know L.A. very much, other than the Emmy trips, or did you, were you there for other things?
Other than the Emmy trips, no. I left Letterman without a job.
I had no idea. So you, you, that is very unusual for a place like that. Um, so you, you leave Dave’s show and then you go out west, um.
Yeah, I, I moved into the Chateau Marmont, which was not as fancy sounding as it is now, you know, um, We used to stay out there for the Emmys on Letterman, you could get, like, you could have half the floor, I think, for 200 dollars a night. Half of a floor of this old, beautiful Hollywood hotel. So I said, oh, I’m just gonna live there. That was my plan. I had a girlfriend, I go, let’s go live there. We had two cats. And, uh, we’ll find a house, there’s just been an earthquake in L. A., so everything’s for rent, and I’m sure CAA will help me find a job, here we go.
And it worked out, so there you go.
And, and like a weekend, you know, aside from chasing my cats around the roof of the Chateau Marmont, um, that’s when I got the call about Seinfeld, you know, let’s go, go, go, oh, no, and I had another job offer too, oh, f*ck, what was the name? Of this woman, there was a, uh, a black woman who had left SNL,
Ellen Cleghorne
Ellen Cleghorne, and she offered me a job on her show,
On The WB.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it was for a whole lot of money, and I was like shocked, I was like, oh my god, that’s a lot of money every week, but I didn’t think, I didn’t understand the show, I didn’t think I would be able to do it, as much as I admired her and thought she was really funny, you know, I just thought, I’m gonna, I know my psychology here, and I’m gonna make this bad for them, and I shouldn’t do it, and why don’t, you know, I hadn’t watched a lot of Seinfeld just because I had been working a lot on Thursday nights, but I, I, people have a very high opinion of it. And I love Jerry’s stand up, and if it’s anything like that, maybe this is where I need to be. And I’ll figure out the half hour script part, they’ll help me along with it.
It worked out. Um, your brother, uh, who writes these pieces for LateNighter, which are really fun, um, your brother. I wanted to hear your, um, your version of what you remember with the Alec Baldwin middle finger photo. Um, at the, at that party. And
Oh my God, you really go deep. Don’t you?
I try, but your brother wrote about it. So that’s why I know. Yeah. Yeah. He wrote about it recently. What does he write? He wrote a piece and they showed the photo, and it’s you giving, you and Alec Baldwin and your brother giving the bird, um, to the, the camera. Kim Basinger is in it, and I guess your dad was, it was like his prized possession.
It was because he had a massive crush on Kim Basinger. Massive. That’s what that moment is all about. We didn’t want Alec Baldwin in the picture.
He just offered to be in it. It was after, at an SNL wrap party. And Kim, um, declined doing the middle finger. Um, big movie star.
But it was mostly about, in this age of no selfies, like, “Hey, we’ve got your girlfriend, dad. And you’re not here.” That, that, that was pretty much our dynamic with our dad. “We’re having a much better life than you.” And he loved it. He loved to be teased that way.
Yeah, the photo I know was framed and it was, it was hanging. You weren’t much younger than some of the writers that were there. Who were the writers that you would hang out with?
George Meyer. Smigel, uh, Odenkirk was there, but I didn’t really hang with him. You know, I would, uh, occasionally I’d be asked to help Dana Carvey with an impression, only that, hey, can you track down the video and go up and bring it to him? And he’d go, sit down, sit down, let’s watch this together, you know? So, uh, but I think, and then, you know, Jan Hooks, we were over her place a lot and Phil Hartman was fantastic. He was just one of the guys. Um, you know, that was kind of the, that was kind of the crew that Sandy and I hung out with the most, I think. A little bit of Farley, you know, after the fact, even though I left.
What was Jan Hooks like going to her place and hanging out with her? I mean, she’s, in my opinion, the best that ever went through the show. Best woman and one of the best cast members ever. Period. I got to meet her once. Very nice. I got to see her perform. Um, yeah, and it was amazing just to watch her. But the fact that you knew her, um, I don’t think that a lot of people really, much is really known about her, um, too, too much other than the, than the show. She didn’t really do a lot of interviews, but what was she like? What stands out about her?
I mean, the first thing is, is she was the other person at, at my foot in that sketch that we were talking about right at the top of this, it was Phil Hartman and Jan Hooks, and they were both doing it. She was very playful in that way. And so much fun and so down to earth, you know, especially with the production staff, which when you’re part of, anybody who even talks to you, you’re like, Oh my God. I love, I love these folks. So after SNL parties, we’d all go over there and drink beer until four in the morning or whatever. And she was always, you know, just up for continuing the party and just, you know, hang, hanging out.
So those that were the original after-after parties, kind of, I know that your brother was instrumental in that.
I think so. Yeah. And at some point she started dating Kevin Nealon and Kevin had a, uh, his office was right behind me. So I sat at the desk right here, right behind me was Dennis Miller. Just off to the left was Kevin Nealon. And you’d see Jan go in there and the door would close. And then, you know, you’d hear this really loud fart and you’d hear Kevin go, Jan, Oh, Jan, for sake. And she’d come out. She goes, “That wasn’t me.”
That sounds very Nealon. I have to ask you about one of the after parties because, you know, I’ve been to them a couple of times. You never know who’s gonna get to be there. But you had this, this thing happened, this incident, but it’s not, I wouldn’t take it personally because there’s so many of these stories out there with Bill Murray. Yeah. Do you think that Bill Murray, Was upset maybe because he was embarrassed that he kind of exploded at you and that’s why he kind of remembers this and avoids you or what? First of all, what’s the setup and what?
So you’re talking about, you’re talking about when I asked him why he didn’t do the sketch I wrote for him on Letterman. After he had approved it.
Yes. And you’re in the bathroom with him and he, um, you know, Dan Akroyd calls him the Murricane. You just never know sometimes what you’re going to get with, with Murray. I know that’s funny. I know people that, that, um, you know, he’s the most loyal guy. Absolutely love him. I know, you know, people that know him, but whatever reason, I don’t know if there were a couple of drinks in him or what, um,
No, he’s just, he’s that, what did, what did Dan Akroyd say?
Murricane.
Yeah, he’s a little volatile. Like any, you know, genius performer, it can cut both ways. He can explode into something wonderfully funny and, or he can just explode. I mean, I, I don’t know. I, I mean, I, I can understand at this point why maybe I shouldn’t have struck up a conversation with him at the urinal if we were sitting at the table, we were sitting together at a table I should have brought it up there. But I think here’s what I really think, because it’s happened twice to me. You know that story.
Yeah.
The other story is with Tom Davis, who I knew really well. And I caught up with Tom Davis at, there was a SARS epidemic before there was a COVID epidemic. And somehow it was centered on Canada and the Rolling Stones decided to do SARS-stock to raise money. And there were a million people at this concert. And a friend of mine was playing there. It was one of the bands before the Rolling Stones. And he said, why don’t you be my roadie? And I said, are you kidding? I don’t even know what I’m going to be doing. He goes, all you do is you unplug one guitar, do the other. I go, there’s a million people out there. He goes, don’t worry about it. So I went backstage and I was waiting for him to perform and. Uh, I think Dan Aykroyd was the host and Tom Davis was writing jokes for him as he was coming out and introducing the bands. It was a, you know, it was an all day kind of Coachella thing with all sorts of bands with Dan doing jokes in between before, you know, ACDC and then the Rolling Stone.
And I went back to him, Hey, Tom, holy, what are you doing here? Hey man, it’s good to see you. It’s great. I go, what are you doing? He goes, I’m writing jokes. I’m doing this. I’ve got to get some stuff for Dan, Dan, who’s coming up next. And I was, it’s great. And I said, You know, Hey, if you want, if you want any help, just let me know. And he goes, get your f*cking own gig, man. And he got really angry. You’re kidding me. And I went, Oh, Oh yeah. Why? I don’t actually want to work. I was just being nice, but maybe, and here’s, I tell that story because I think that generation of writer, you know, uh, uh, Bill Murray and, and Tom Davis lived by a kind of different set of kind of writer and production codes and etiquettes, of which I was not privy to, and I, in their eyes, had crossed the line in both cases that if I had been of their generation, would be things that you would never say. Does that make sense?
It does.
Because with Bill, my comments innocent, like, I didn’t care that he didn’t do my thing. I was just kind of making small talk with the guy just to have a conversation with him. But I, but I couldn’t have cared less whether he had done my idea or done Beckerman’s idea or someone else’s, but I was very surprised I stepped on a landmine.
I want to point out, and I would put Herb Sargent in this as well, who I know bit your head off, is that generation of people.
That was my fault too.
But that generation, they seem incapable of, when they’re upset, of just voicing and, you know, this, that upset me, like this, they, they, it’s like, they, they have like, it’s either they explode, Or they just are, you know, regular, but there’s no talking about, you know, Oh, you know what, actually that
Maybe, I don’t know, Herb was terrific too. It was, he was just, it’s a high pressure environment. And in those environments, even today, people break every once in a while. And, you know, I get, I. Don’t give a s if somebody yells at me. Go ahead. If you need to get that out, I had it happen with an actor, uh, six months ago in a recording session. And not gonna say who it is, but he unloaded. Unloaded. On you? And then, you know what I said? After he was done, I let it hang for a second, and I said, I hope you feel better. And he goes, I do. I go, great let’s move on because i’ve been in his position before and i have felt that pressure and you cannot control yourself every time it’s just not possible you can try. But you’re not gonna do it so you know with Bill, with Herb, with Tom i don’t really think about that much at all.
You have a good attitude. But then Murray you’re gonna hang out with one of your friends and Murray was gonna be there and you’re like i don’t think O can hang out.
Yeah, we were we were we were going up to hang out with him He was hosting the ESPYs and said he goes come on We’re gonna go up to his hotel room and I go, I don’t think he’s gonna want to see me
And who is this you were with you were with who at the time?
Sandy Restrepo my friend Sandy. Yeah, yeah, and she goes come on you be crazy. He doesn’t even know who you are And I go, yeah, maybe but you might just wanna you might just want to say hey, so it’s not uncomfortable for you And she called back, she goes, yeah, yeah, you can’t come up. And I said, “All right, I totally understand. I totally understand. I didn’t care. It was fine.” What does it matter? I don’t need to go hang out with a guy who doesn’t want to hang out with me. You know, I’m a huge Bill Murray fan. I can, I can enjoy him just by watching him. I, you know, I, I think that way now. Like, I don’t really want to meet the people I like, uh, who entertain me much anymore. I’m not interested. Howard Stern is one of those guys. I’ve never met Howard Stern. I don’t think. And I hope to never meet him at all. I just like listening to him every day. And I, and I like what he’s putting out there. And I get to process his art and his performance through my, uh, automotive speaker.
He’s very good with the interviews. It’s incredible how he keeps
He’s unbelievable.
It’s It’s wonderful that you’re finally doing these YouTube, um, from Spike’s Car Radio, you’re doing these videos. And it’s not the one with Leno. There’s so much noise out there. And I know recently you just put it out and it’s up to like 90,000 plus views and you have one with, um, you just did with Jerry Seinfeld, but it’s wonderful that you’re filming this. And that was, is this at your garage where you’re filming it.
So there, there’s a garage where we keep cars here in L. A. that, uh, the folks in New York that sell our ads said, you guys really, you’re not noticing what’s going on in entertainment right now. Television is dying. All the advertisers are fleeing linear TV and paid television and they’re coming to YouTube and you guys have a show that you’ve been doing for seven years and you’ve got a lot of folks that you’ve had on there, you know, Matt Damons, Christian Bales, Jerry Seinfelds and, you know, Spike can pick up the phone and call friends and have them on and no one gets to see it. And this is, according to these guys, it was, is, is the future. You know, you want, you miss your late night show? Just go do it. You don’t have to pitch it, you know? And I do one of the things I missed most about late night was meeting folks and interviewing them and just having a conversation with them. And I really love it. I really love it.
You’re so good at it.
Well, thank you. That’s nice.
I mean, I know you just had Max Greenfield on, and James Marsden. Yeah. Yeah. And you can get buddies like Dennis Miller that come on that will not do anything. Anybody else other than fly on the wall, cause he’s friends with Carvey and Spade, Spudley. They’re not going to be talking to Mark Malkoff. He’s not, but that’s okay.
They might. You’d be surprised.
I, I emailed Den Dennis, um, a couple of years ago to ask him to be on my Johnny Carson podcast. And he, he said, I don’t really remember much, so I’m going to politely demur. But thank you for asking. I was like, I tried, but at least he got back to me. That is Dennis. But you get these amazing people. I’m so glad. And it looks visually stunning. I mean the background.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, we got we got the 4k cameras Yeah. And you can just, you really, you can just sit and do a show now. And like you’re saying, those numbers don’t sound like Jerry’s show is a hundred. I thought, all right, we’ll get a couple thousand views, but Jerry’s up to 120,000. And you know, those numbers start to get competitive with late night and certainly better than CNN right now. And you start to go, well, huh. I can just be my own thing and do my own thing without any interference. My production company can just run it. I can have the folks on I just want to have on. I can meet new people from, you know, we’re out, um, promoting TV and, and films. And like you said, right away, that Leno conspiracy thing, which is, it’s ridiculous. The guy’s the cleanest guy I’ve ever met in my life. I mean, he doesn’t drink, he doesn’t gamble. And there’s a million conspiracy theories about his fall right now.
It’s so Jay that he would stay at a Hampton Inn, a man of the
Of course! We talked about it. That’s, that’s, any traveling comedian is in those places. There’s no Four Seasons in Greenberg, Pennsylvania, or wherever the hell he was. You go to sleep, you do the set, you get he gets on his plane, he comes home. It all makes perfect sense to me. All.
And I noticed that he would always show up alone to these food places and just order, because I’ve talked to people that just
Of course! Look, follow Bill Burr. And you’ll see, you’ll see he goes, Hey, uh, it’s a Tuesday. I’m in Monterey. I’m with that guy. He’s looking in the window at the 7 Eleven. I’m doing a show tonight at this. I mean, this is what these comedians are doing out on the road, including Jerry Seinfeld. I’ve been with him.
I’m shocked. I thought he’d be at the five stars no matter what in his contract rider. And I thought,
No, I think here’s the one difference. Jerry would, I think, have a driver. If he were out in the road alone, he would have someone to drive him, but that’s about it, but no, I I’ve been out on the road with Jerry and crappy motels. He doesn’t care.
That sounds very Jerry. 400 episodes. You’ve done almost of spikes, a car radio. And, um, do you miss Malibu Kitchen being recorded there? I only went there once and I did not know until one of my. Friends in the industry, somebody was just like, um, you know, let’s meet up there. I’m like, I’ve never been there. And then I met the owner and he starts, um, mentioning Seinfeld. I’m like Seinfeld? And my friend’s like, Oh yeah, they’re here all the time. And Leno and stuff. Do you miss that a lot?
Oh, of course. Yeah. That was a great place. I mean, that’s really responsible for this podcast is we used to get together after kind of blasting through canyons. I mean, our car thing is driving, so while some people are playing golf, we would meet in Santa Monica, get in some cool cars, buzz the canyons, feel relaxed, stop at Bill’s, and then talk. Where were you performing? What’s going on with TV? What’s the stupid car and this? And people would lean in and try to listen to us. Once somebody actually started typing what we were saying and put it in the Malibu newspaper, uh, we, uh, Jerry had words with that guy and said, please, please don’t do that. But I said to Jerry shortly after, I go, it sounds like there’s some interest here. Should we just talk into microphones? And, and the podcast was born. That’s really all it is. It’s, it’s the stuff that we would say after driving canyons and it can be anything. Family life, comedy, you know, TV shows. We’re watching the stupidity of our car hobby.
It’s wonderful listening. And then sometimes you’re at Malibu Kitchen and with your son and Neil Diamond is there and you have to say,
Oh yeah, Boy, you really have gone deep.
I try.
You are like a forensic interviewer.
Comedy nerd. Forensic comedy nerd.
I’ve never seen someone go that deep.
I try.
I’ve never, I can’t believe you just brought up that photo from two years ago.
I’ve never gotten to meet. Neil Diamond. He’s Neil Diamond. Come on, from the Bronx. The Bronx or Brooklyn.
I mean, I feel the same way. That’s why I sent my son over there to get a picture with him. But still the fact that you know, that Instagram post from what four or five years ago,
I can’t get stuff out of my head from like, from whenever there’s something wrong with me, but I know you have to go. Um, so thank you so much for doing this spike. I promise another six months. Maybe? I don’t want to bother you. So thank you for doing this.
No, I enjoy these conversations. You’re, you’re the only guy who asks these questions. It’s really enjoyable for me.
I appreciate it.
