
Arthur Meyer has had a number of experiences in late-night television that most of us only dream about. Initially brought in by a friend on the Late Night With Jimmy Fallon writing staff to occasionally play one-off roles in comedy bits, he was rehearsing a sketch with Fallon when the late-night host offered him a job on the show’s writing staff.
He went on to become a prolific writer for Fallon at Late Night and later, The Tonight Show, conceiving bits like First Drafts of Rock, and appearing in a slew of roles on the show as a featured performer.
Along the way he’s also appeared as a guest on Late Show with David Letterman, had an in-studio audition to join the cast of Saturday Night Live, and hosted his own talk show pilot for Comedy Central.
In his second appearance on Inside Late Night, Meyer discusses each of these experiences, then he and Mark Malkoff put their encyclopedic knowledge of SNL to the test with a rousing game of “Who Hosted That Show?”
Click the embed below to listen now, or find Inside Late Night on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Follow Arthur on YouTube and Instagram. Visit the YouTube channel for his 50-episode digital series ABC Parenting and follow ABC Parenting on Instagram.
Show Transcript
Mark Malkoff: Arthur Meyer, welcome back.
Arthur Meyer: Thank you, Mark.
What was it like going on Letterman? This was 2012, correct?
Yes, September 19th, 2012.
And this was Jon Beckerman, who’s a wonderful guy, and Rob Burnett. They wrote a movie, you were one of the stars, and they got you to go on the show to promote it?
Yes, they wrote a movie called We Made This Movie, and uh, I got hired for, to write for Fallon on March 1st, 2012, and I called up my friend Rob Burnett to tell him the exciting news that I would be writing it at Jimmy Fallon. And he told me, That’s so exciting. I’m so happy for you. And I’m going to tell you the one piece of news that’s going to trump your news and you said you’re gonna be a guest on Letterman… to promote We Made This Movie.
So he was about to, he was gonna contact you and let you know. So this was all prearranged that you were gonna be on Letterman. He just hadn’t told you yet.
Yeah, and I don’t know if he had just found out or if he was waiting till close because the appearance itself wasn’t till September. But Rob is a magnanimous person and he’s just very generous. And he’s the kind of person who would pounce on an opportunity like that to kind of like, you know, outdo you in a playful way with like great news, and like that’s it’s very much in line with who he is, which I love about him.
Your segment was eight minutes, something like that to sit down with with Dave. How old were you at the time? And what do you remember from the time? Uh, like through your pre interview from the time that you arrive to the Ed Sullivan, who were you with? And up until you’re backstage with Biff Henderson and the wings and what stands out?
Okay, so yeah, I think here’s what happened. I went, I woke up that morning. I took a couple NyQuil so I could get some sleep because I knew I wouldn’t sleep otherwise. And I think I just got like, I cobbled together like five broken hours of sleep, but I was just on adrenaline that whole day. I went to work at Fallon, because I was a writer there. So I went to 30 Rock that morning. Until like 1:30 or 2:00 PM or something. And then I wanted to walk over to CBS studios or to the Ed Sullivan Theater. But, um, I guess they insist on, on driving you over in a car, even though I was like, no one is gonna know who I am. Uh, they picked me up in a limo and then. I get dropped out, you know, it would have taken shorter to just walk there.
That’s what Tom Brokaw would normally do from the building when he was a guest on Dave back and forth walk. Yeah.
Yeah. Just walk over. Why the hell not? Um, and then there’s some paparazzi outside who I can tell are kind of, you know, disappointed that it’s this person who they don’t recognize. So that was really fun to, to have, you know, these people taking your picture, like they don’t give a sh*t about you, uh, which is really funny. And the whole thing felt like this is surreal. Like this, I can’t, I can’t believe I’m getting away with this. And you go up to their, like, sixth floor dressing room or whatever floor it was. And then I was so nervous. Yeah. And then they bring you down there and I was just terrified. And, uh, and you see Biff Henderson, you’re standing right backstage and you’re like, Oh, that’s right. Biff is real. Of course he works at the show, but you can’t believe that he’s real and that he looks like Biff and sounds like Biff. And he tells me what I’m going to do. He’s like, you’re going to go out here and you’re going to go this way. And then you’ll see Letterman shake his hand and then step around to the couch. And I was so nervous. Uh, and what I did was I, like, I was looking at the, the backdrop of New York city, like the set behind Dave. And I had this thought, like, right before I was about to go out there of like, Oh, yeah, that’s right. TV is so stupid. Um, and that just kind of calmed my nerves. I was just like, that’s like a made up backdrop of New York. This whole thing is silly and ridiculous. And I just got way less nervous right before I went out there. And, uh… but then I got nervous again. And the reason for that was that so I had talked to a segment producer named Sarah Connell, who ended up actually working with me at Fallon. She’s a segment producer. Uh, she’s lovely and wonderful and so nice and we had gone over like five possible stories that I had really chiseled over the course of several months of being super prepared for this appearance five stories. She’s like, Dave will probably set you up for one of them. I don’t know which one that’s going to be and you don’t talk to Dave before the show. He doesn’t meet the guests or anything like that. But just go with him and follow his lead. I’m like, great. So we get out there and I sit down and I’m looking into Dave Letterman’s face, which is absolutely surreal. You feel like you’ve jumped into the TV and it’s just, none of it makes any sense. And you’re actually expected to like, maintain your sanity. And talk like you’re just having a conversation like I was so terrified.
You couldn’t tell
What? Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, oh, yeah, I guess it’s because in that last minute I, I calmed down a little bit, but then I got really nervous again when Letterman goes, uh, he goes, uh, now Arthur, uh, uh, where, where are you from there, Arthur? And I go, uh, oh, I’m, I’m from a suburb of Chicago called Wilmette. And he goes, uh, uh, okay, now, uh, now was Wilmette, uh, sort of the, uh, the magnet for your culture there. And I remember thinking, like, what the hell does that mean? Was Wilmette the magnet for your culture? And like, which of my stories is he setting me up for? So I panic and I, in my mind, I’m just shuffling through, like trying desperately to remember any of the stories, which I all left my mind. And I go, yeah, you know, Wilmette was, I loved growing up there. I was obsessed with comedy. And then suddenly I remember one of my things and I was like, I was actually, uh, I was a little, a little league umpire, uh, when I was growing up there and Letterman just seized on that, he just jumped on that. Cause I think that that was a topic. I think he, like all the other hosts, much prefers to talk about anything except the thing that the guest is promoting. And he was happy to talk about something as non celebrity-ish as umpiring. So we mostly talked about that for the interview. And, uh, I have a lot to say, cause I was a little league umpire for eight years. And I started a fan club for a major league umpire named Laz Diaz on Facebook in 2008. So. We end up talking about Laz for a couple of minutes, and this is a funny side story, but that night Laz had just finished last night. We’re friends. By the way, we became friends after I started the fan club for him. So lads that night had just finished umpiring a game in Chicago, and he’s in the locker room after the game. And one of the other umpires has Letterman on, and it’s Me talking to Dave about Laz, he has, and the other umpire says to Laz, he turns to him, he’s like, Laz, this guy’s up here talking about you on Letterman. And then Laz looks at the TV, he goes, Oh yeah, that’s the president of my fan club. And the other umps are like, Why do you have a fan club? But yeah, that was, uh, unbelievable. And the, um, I got really comfortable because that was the amazing thing about Dave. It was that he, I think he probably knew how nervous I must’ve been and that it was like the biggest moment of my life. And he just made me feel so comfortable up there. It felt like you were talking with like, if you’ve ever heard like Vin Scully do like a Dodgers game or something, you’re like, he’s so in his element here. He doesn’t care about the audience. I mean, he does, but he doesn’,t like he does, like, like, once I saw him interview Bill Clinton, and he just asked Bill Clinton about these very specific, you know, presidential things that had nothing to do, you know, they were like, really in the weeds on issues. And at one point. And yet, well, at one point, Bill Clinton just goes like, are you sure they want to hear this, you know, referring to the audience and let Letterman just goes, Oh, don’t worry about them. They’re fine.
That is what Dave became after he kind of like accepted the fact that Leno was going to be number one. He would do certain things and book certain people just for himself. I mean, it was yeah, totally clear. Um, that yeah, he was asking the questions for him and whereas most of the hosts, the first thing that they’re going to think is just what’s entertaining for the, it has to be entertaining at least for the audience. And that wasn’t always the case.
Yeah, and Letterman was just so settled into that sense of like it will be entertaining if I’m engaged. He has that great thing that every great interviewer does where they’re asking about the thing that they’re really interested in. So he was actually really interested in the umpire stuff
And then he had his own story to talk about his own experience.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he had his own story and then at one point, you know, he had to get to the movie stuff So he asked me about it Um, and we set up a clip and while they were playing the clip, I remember we’re in the studio and the lights, you know, dim so that the audience can watch the clip. And Dave says to me, but he’s like shouting practically, like he goes, uh, what did he say? Uh, he was like, he basically just continued talking about his experience with the umpire that, that he was telling me about in the interview. And I couldn’t believe how loudly he was talking, and I looked out at the audience like, oh, they’re gonna, like, be distracted by Letterman, but like, they weren’t, like, obviously Letterman knew what volume he could talk at, everyone in the audience was just looking up at the clip, and Dave perfectly timed what he was saying to me to, like, sync up with the end of the clip, and then, like, it’s just back to the interview at the end, and that was, when. You know, and it, it just went by so quickly. And I just remember by the end of it being like, oh, I feel like I could do this forever. Like, he made it so easy and fun for me and I felt really at liberty to say like, whatever I wanted to. And then when I was done, he, uh, all that happened was he just shook my hand and it, after they went to commercial, he said, he said, uh, uh, very nice Arthur. And that was like, that was all that I needed. I was like, I think that’s as good as I could possibly get from Letterman.
Yeah, it was one of those things when Dave wanted, um, had a connection and he felt good with a guest who would make them look amazing. And obviously you could handle yourself, but certain people that would walk into that situation, if he wasn’t into them, would you could just tell? I don’t want to say turn on them, but he wouldn’t help them and certain people and you would see them struggle and Dave seemed to kind of be okay with that.
I agree. I, I think you could kind of see when he likes a guest and doesn’t like I, maybe it’s just that I’ve watched enough of that show to kind of see when he’s to really be able to read his mood. I also, by the way, have a theory for any big letterman heads out there that I can pinpoint the year that I think Dave became good at interviews, which was 1986.
It did take a while. It took a while. Some of those early interviews, he’s like, Yeah, the first few years, I think the show must have been pretty revolutionary in terms of what a late night show could be, but he’s not comfortable in those first few years.
The morning show interviews, too, are very, uh, they’re very stiff. When he would guest host for Johnny.
He’s so stiff.
Unless he maybe sometimes was with a friend. That whole skill set definitely took him a while. That’s a great point.
Yeah, but yeah, that’s specifically 1986 is when he’s like, starts to, it’s kind of the year he stops being like polite during interviews, you know, maybe, maybe 85 a little bit, but like 86, I think he’s really sinks his teeth into just like, if he’s in a bad mood, just kind of embracing it. And it’s like, yeah, I love, I love that about Dave, you know, you’re a host isn’t supposed to do that. A host is supposed to be happy and positive and it’s just so undercuts your expectations and it’s just endlessly entertaining. That NBC show is in terms of how, how revolutionary it was and still how funny that show is.I mean…
Yeah, so funny. So much of that stuff holds up.
It really does. I, I left Fallon in 2016 after writing there for four years and I, my assumption was that I was not going to be coming back to the show. So I went to go host this. It’s the show called Live From Everywhere. So it was a Comedy Central pilot that I was sort of the co head writer for with R.J. Fried, who is a long time Letterman writer, and Jo Firestone, Colin Elzie, and Michael Koman were the other writers on it.
Those are some great writers. Yeah. I was over at After Midnight, Michael Koman’s done so much.
And Colin was eventually a head writer at Fallon too. And, uh, so that was a show that I was hosting from a studio, and all the bits that we did were with people in different cities and countries and stuff. So like over Skype and Facetime, it was kind of the perfect show for, uh, the pandemic, but this was unfortunately four years before the pandemic. So it just wasn’t, it just didn’t quite work out, but I was so happy with what the show was, but my biggest inspiration at that time was watching ‘80s Letterman, because that show had such a sense of unpredictability to it that you really never knew what was going to happen. And I’m like, this is the joy of watching live. Live stuff, you know, it’s part of what.
There was danger on that show There there was a reason because you just never knew and there was something magical about 6A I just I mean he was great in the Sullivan, but just having this small studio. There’s something about that show where, yeah, every time when it hit 1230 in the theme song, it was just like, you just never knew what was going to happen. And that didn’t, didn’t really happen on a lot of other shows, late night shows like that.
I agree. And, and also the lack of polish visually, uh, was really appealing to me.
Everything got in. The mistakes got in. It was wonderful when that would happen sometimes. They would, yeah, I mean, huge highs. And then when the lows were there, they just, he acknowledged them, would make fun of them and they would just keep going. But there was definitely not. The safety net that there is now.
I agree. I mean, I’ve always really loved that aesthetic too, like, I think about Conan episodes and the pre tapes that they do and how they weren’t, were never anywhere near as polished, uh, as like a Fallon pre tape would be. And I have such love for those, those kind of like things that are kind of look like they’re kind of cobbled together last minute. But like, he visuals take a backseat to like just the content of the comedy. You’re just like, Oh yeah, this is funny. I don’t care how it looks. And this fitness in fact actually adds to my enjoyment of it. You know,
I mean, that’s what I loved about that approach with it with Dave’s NBC show that they would put the employees in, uh, doing acting versus Conan casting with a lot of UCB people who are very talented, very funny. I mean, in terms of them, you know, using Amy Poehler as, as, um, Andy’s sister, I mean, some of that stuff was so good with that casting, but at the same time, for most of it, um, a lot of it, I just would really prefer the Dave approach where they would just have the staff doing it. There was just something charming about that. Just I don’t know an unpolished untrained performer. It worked.
I agree. And I think that, you know, comedy has this way of like, it just breathes authenticity. So you can, you can sense someone’s personality, regardless of whether they’re a funny, you know, regardless of whether they’re a polished performer, you know? So like, if you’re seeing someone like Biff Henderson, you’re like, well, I like this guy. Like, there’s something about him that’s likable. Yeah. Yeah. And then I’m sure people, the show probably like, you know, you think about like Wally, who you’ve interviewed. It’s like, there’s something really, really likable about him. Is he the greatest actor of all time? Like, you know, I think he has even said that he’s not, you know, but it’s like, you just are drawn to the personalities of it. You’re drawn to the fact that they’re doing something with backstage. Yeah. I mean, I used to pitch that stuff at Fallon a lot. Sometimes it. Sometimes it actually would get on, uh, but it’s just one of my favorite things is using writers and bits or using just staffers who have no business being on TV and bits.
Your reel, your Fallon reel of things that you got on is, I mean, it’s incredible. Oh, thanks Mark. It’s like, almost like, you know, watching someone like Brian McCann or Stack on Conan, and you’re just watching this long reel of things that you got to do, which I want to talk about in a little bit, but the thing that makes you, I think probably out of anybody I’ve ever talked to that was hired for one of these shows, I want to preface this, that if I saw this, if they made a movie on your life and I saw this scene, they put it in, I would, I would be like, there’s no way that this would actually happen. You were actually got hired. It’s on film. They actually filmed the moment that you found out that you got hired.
Yes.
And there was, people were applauding, like, this doesn’t happen. What exactly were the circumstances, because you sent me a link, I wasn’t able to find, uh, to watch it, but what, what happened?
Oh, okay, I’ll, I’ll, it might be a, maybe I made the link private or something, but I could send it to you. But what happened was, um, you know, I had been, so I’ll go back a little bit here. Feel free to edit this down as much as you want. But my, uh, the first person I ever knew to get hired in the world of TV was Mike DiCenzo. Mike was a writer at The Onion and I knew him cause he went to Boston University and I was a contributing writer at the Onion. And he and I just happened to live a block and a half away from each other. So I would go to his apartment to hang out and watch either baseball or Studio 60. And, uh, um, and, and, and he was the first person I knew to get a TV job. He went from The Onion to Fallon. He was the very first writer that they hired. And he was also, I would say the first writer to like really kind of figure out what that show would be. Like, I think he really kind of cracked what Jimmy’s overlap with late night would be, which he’s extremely good at. He’s a very smart writer. He writes, gets a lot of stuff on at SNL. And, uh, you know, when you write sketches, as you know, you’re also producing them at these late night shows. So he wrote a sketch called the Gadsden Purchase Guy, which is, um, for the 6th episode of Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, and it’s still on YouTube. If you just look up Gadsden Purchase Guy, and Mike DiCenzo is the main person in the sketch, and it’s just a classic Conan-style audience bit where Jimmy’s the straight man and Mike DiCenzo’s in the audience asking Jimmy why he hasn’t been doing more comment, more jokes about the Gadsden Purchase, um, and Jimmy’s confused and, uh, then Anthony Jeselnik comes in and he plays the guy who wants Jimmy to talk more about the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. And then Mike asked me two days before the sketch aired if I could come over to his apartment and help him with a couple jokes and I added exactly two jokes to the sketch, and he then was like, would you potentially want to be in it? Because when you produce these sketches that you write, you’re also in charge of every element of production. You know, you’re like, if there’s casting, so like people at Conan who used to write, uh, you know, and cast UCB people, it’s like they were in charge of casting. So they would like, reach out to their comedy friends. So that’s what Mike did. So I got a call on that Monday like can you come over to the studio right now and I did and I did that sketch. I had four lines and it went really well. Well enough that they asked me to keep coming back and do like bit parts on the show I mean like this is the most I would be on the show’s four lines and every performance after that was, like, zero lines or if I was lucky one line I would usually be playing a fake Page in the sketch and so the show was familiar with me you know they knew who like Jimmy knew who I was and he knew that I. was solid in these tiny parts and sketches. I was in a sketch show at the UCB called Two Fun Men Present Two Men Having Fun with my friend John Haskell, who’s still a writer at Fallon.
How did Jimmy come to the show? Jimmy actually came to see that, correct?
I think Jimmy was just familiar with me and John. And I think Mike, like, you know, was trying to get me and John hired as writers at the show. And, you know, Mike was like, you know, they’re doing a show tonight. Do you want to come see it? And Jimmy said, yes. And we didn’t know if Jimmy was actually going to come, but then it’s like five minutes before the show and we’re standing in the tech booth at the UCB looking at, and we see Jimmy come in with like a few other people from the show. And yeah, so we did the show and luckily we had performed it a bunch of times. So we kind of knew it. It wasn’t my best performance of the show, but I was like, I knew the show so well that I’m like, I, you know, I felt good about it. And then, yeah, they hired, uh, a couple months later that came down to, they had hired three writers, there were four slots, and the last slot was between me and John. And they hired John. Um, so, and I was just so, you know, I was happy for John, but the, the bulk of what I was feeling was resentment, anger, not, not knowing who to direct these feelings toward, not knowing if I should be upset at the show, or.
I just want to interject, how many times at this point have you, did you submit? Because I know that you submitted several times until you, you got hired. Were you doing writer’s packets up until this point?
Yeah, this was I, at this point I had submitted three times. And so by the time I submitted a year later, I had heard that, you know, one or two writers weren’t doing so well. And they were maybe looking for a new writer. Do you want to submit another packet? And I was about ready to give up on the show, um, and maybe try to focus on like, uh, SNL. I had been working on a solo show that I was like 80 percent done with. And, uh, I just decided like, yeah, why the hell not? I’ll submit a packet. And yeah, so I, and I was still doing bit parts on the show. So one day I get asked to do a part and I show up for rehearsal and you know, Jimmy, if I, Jimmy would sometimes set me up for a line. Like there were, there was never anything scripted for me, but sometimes I would come out as a fake page and Jimmy would just say, how are you doing buddy? Or what’s going on? And that was basically just him letting me say whatever I wanted to. I would just get like one line. Uh, so I tried to pre-plan that every time to, you know, make sure that it was like something that tickled Jimmy. And I feel like for my years of watching SNL over the years, I kind of got a sense of like what makes Jimmy laugh. And I said, whatever the line was, I think I said, um, Oh, I’m pretty good. I got a lunch with my uncle three weeks ago, so I’m doing great. And Jimmy, he just kind of cuts me off and he goes, Oh, uh, you know, actually, by the way, Arthur, uh, we, I read your packet and I miss heard-. I didn’t know if I heard him. I would go, Oh, sorry. Why do you guys, I read your packet. I was, it was great. And I go, Oh, thank you. And he goes, yeah, do you want to work here? Um, and this is on the floor in rehearsal in front of, you know, the crew and The Roots and, you know, the writers and it was just, I felt like that moment at the end of Titanic when Jack and Rose, there’s like that kind of dream sequence and they’re like kissing in front of like all the cheering people who I guess died on the Titanic or something. And it’s just this magical moment where you feel like you’re like living in a dream or something. And it’s, it’s everything you would ever want. And I was just completely shocked. And hug my friend, John Haskell, and I made some joke of like, yeah, of course I want to work here. Do I still have to do this sh*t? Um, and then I went downstairs and called my parents. And then the, that sketch actually ended up getting cut from the show. So I didn’t even have to worry about performing that night. I, uh, you know, it was great.
And everyone in the studio was applauding, correct?
Yeah, but it wasn’t the, the, yeah, again, this was rehearsal. So the,
Oh, the people on, the people that worked at the show were applauding.
Yeah, exactly.
And then do you, they gave you the videotape of that?
Yes. And I, I should probably keep that link private, but if there is anyone who’s listening to this, I’d be more than happy to send them the, the private link if they’re interested. I, I don’t expect them to be, but if they are.
Did you write for Fallon? Was it seven years? I know you said four at one point. Did you go back?
Yeah. So I left in 2016 to do that Live From Everywhere show. Um, so I wrote for four years as a writer. And then, uh, towards the end of 2016, we still hadn’t heard if Live From Everywhere was going to get picked up. And around that time, um, a couple writers had left the show and Mike DiCenzo and Gerard Bradford were the supervising writers. They were uh, promoted, I guess, if you want to call it a promotion, depending on how you look at it, to executive producers of the show, uh, along with Katie Hockmeyer, who’s now the head of late night at NBC, I believe.
Yeah. Katie’s great. I’ve talked to her before. Yeah. She’s wonderful.
She is. Yeah. I love, I love Katie. And, uh, so they needed a supervising writer. So John and I were asked if we wanted to be supervising writers, sketch, uh, sketch supervising writers, which meant that we were kind of to oversee the sketch team. So I came back to the show in November of 2016. And. Stayed in that role until August of 2019 when I left the show.
This is another first, and I’m sure, maybe it existed in Late Night, is that when you decide to leave the show, it’s documented. Jimmy says goodnight at the end of the show. And he, he has you come on and, um, you know, he goes around and does the high fives and gives you this huge hug, the camera’s on you, you have tears in your eyes, it’s a big, big deal, it’s, it’s emotional, you have like this dream come true, and it’s, I mean, who else gets that as a writer?
I don’t know. I, I remember just feeling like this is, you know, everything I could have dreamed it would ever be. Um, it was just, you know, I, I used to actually, I heard Smigel say something on this podcast that I loved. I love everything he says, but he said something on this podcast, which maybe you’ll remember. He said that he used to go down to the floor to watch the sketches. And I felt that way to it. Fallon, like, even if I got a little small bit in the monologue, I would go down and watch it. Uh, to watch it live, because I’m like, this is the only time that I’ll get to see it this way. Uh, and so for my last show, I decided to just watch the entire show from the floor and just take it in as much as I could. I love when The Roots play their opening music. Like that was always my favorite part of the show is just so exciting. And the curtains open and Jimmy comes out and you just feel such a rush of energy. And yeah, the funny thing was that show, I pitched something for the monologue that day a bit that I would, I was hoping to be in. It was like a thing for myself, but it just didn’t even get picked to go into Jimmy. So I just kind of had the day to like, go around to people. And then I watched the show from the studio floor. And then Natalie Merchant was on the show. And she was playing her song These are, These Are Days I think is what it’s called, or These Are The Days, which is entirely about like appreciating the moment while you’re in the moment. And like, yeah, And yes, she finished the song and then Jimmy did his usual thing where he goes up the aisle down the aisle and high fives people. And I had no clue that the camera would be on me for this because usually, you know, the show cuts away before that anyway. But the camera stayed on me and Jimmy and we hugged and I was crying and Jimmy said to me, uh, can you believe, like, this is the song that’s playing? Because he knew it was my last show. He’s like, can you believe that this is the song? So we were just like laughing and crying. And he had, you know, tears in his eyes a little bit. Not as much as me. I was like full-on bawling. And…
It was storybook. I’m so glad that they were able to get that. That again..
I know it was such a thrill. And I got to open with, I got to kind of do a thing with The Roots. When I, uh, before the show, I, I helped like warm up the audience, like Seth Herzog knew it was my last day and he just called me over, uh, and The Roots were playing a beat. And I just like, well, I got to do something. And I luckily had a song for my, that solo show, uh, that I was working on when I got hired at Fallon that I just barely remembered. And I did, I performed that. So like, it was like the, the one of the best days of, of my life.
Yeah. When you submitted three times to the show, did you ever hear any feedback whatsoever? Because normally if you don’t get it, you just don’t hear anything.
Yeah, I think I remember hearing a little bit of feedback of like, oh yeah, I showed this to this producer Gavin, Mike Vicenzo mentioned that, and that Gavin really liked one of the bits that I had in there. Um, but I don’t think I ever heard any feedback, anything like, you know, critical or anything. I think that’s the only thing I can really remember. Like, you don’t really ever, and as someone who has looked at many packets, it would just be really hard to get back to, like, every writer and give them feedback. And honestly, a lot of them, uh, given what they submit, kind of don’t deserve to hear back. That sounds kind of mean to say.
I talked to people at these shows. I mean, there are people that clearly do not watch the show that send in these things sometimes.
Yeah. So you don’t even want to take the time to write an email and be like, you know, the main. critique I have is that you need to watch the show. You’re just like, I’ve already spent too much time reading this thing written by this, you know?
And some of these are coming in from agents, correct? Some of these people actually, I mean, have like legit representation?
Yes, I think there were one or two people whose packets were so egregious that I actually wrote back to the agent and was like, can you hold off on submitting anyone unless they watch the show and I didn’t mean that to be mean, but just like, let’s not waste anyone’s time here. Um, cause you could tell, you could tell pretty quickly if I, I kind of feel like when I was in that role, a good packet would stand out pretty quickly.
There weren’t a lot of people though that got hired at Fallon that had to do submit that many times. I’ve never heard of anybody. Am I, am I wrong? There might, or are there other people that had to submit four times to get hired?
You know, I don’t really know the numbers on it.
That was Conan. That’s how it was for the longest time at Conan that you had to do at least like three. Um, it got to the point where they just, and then the whole process to get hired over there just was taking a full year. Sometimes even more for people.
Yeah. I mean, any, anytime we would hire a new writer or new writers at the show, it was like, it would always come down to like, that writer and like several other writers. So it’s like, you want to be able to take all these people, but you just can’t hire that many people on the show because of budget reasons and stuff. And also in 30 Rock, there’s, you know, it’s just a small building. So you don’t even know where you would put those people. But, uh, yeah, you know, you, you, um, you know, so that’s why people would have to submit again. So some, a lot of people who have gotten hired at Fallon have submitted, uh, multiple packets, but people could just get plucked out of anywhere. Like, you know, there’s that guy at Seth, Bryan Donaldson, who I believe was just like, yeah. And I think he was just working as like an IT guy in Peoria, Illinois.
Funny is funny.
Yeah, funny is funny. And it just, that’s one of the beautiful things about it. But then you would get people hired from standup or yeah, people from the UCB. And now, now I think the show hires people from TikTok sometimes.
When you were there at the show, there was, it definitely. There was a time when it seemed that a lot of writers were let go and getting hired, and it seemed the frequency more than any of the other shows. What exactly was going on at that time, and is that a fair assessment, do you think, for me to say that?
Yeah, I mean, I think that’s fair, just at least in the sense of like, if you were to just look at the sheer numbers of it, you would, you know, that would be a totally fair assessment. Fair. As to why that is, I,
Is it just one cycle, and they just can’t, like the one cycle is clear, they just, just, they can’t do it, or is it, does it normally take a while for you to figure it out?
Yeah, I think it’s, um, I would like to usually give people at least a few cycles, because I think, for me, it took… I would say it even took like almost a year. Um, and luckily I was getting like kind of just enough on to keep getting renewed. But that first year I was at the show, I was certain each time that I was going to get fired at the end of my 13 week cycle.
How much did you, were you getting on at the time would you say?
The first year? Uh, not a lot. Like I, I would get, I think, I think it took me about I was kind of given a piece that was not my idea, but that was like about a month into it. And what I did with that was just work my ass off to make sure that that piece went well. So anything that was in my control, I tried to do as much as I could. But I think the problem with a lot of these shows is like, they don’t necessarily trust you until you’ve proven yourself. But then how can you prove yourself if they don’t trust you? It’s like a really tough thing to weave. I don’t think I got my first, like my own piece on it until I want to say, like, five months into being there, like, I think I had gotten, I mean, I got like the very, the very first thing I got on was like, maybe four weeks, three or four weeks into being there, which was a bit that they did with Matthew Broderick. But this was just like a small thing at the end of his segment where they were showing the original posters for Ferris Bueller’s Day Off. And it was all just like, It was, it was just like Ferris Bueller, but if he had had a really bad name. So just like, you know, I’m trying to remember like Phil Gunt’s day off. Like it was, it was barely, it was not even something that they would do now.
But you got it on. But up until that point, you weren’t even getting Thank You Notes in or anything like that?
I would get like, I would definitely get jokes as part of other people’s bits in and I got enough of those on that. I think I, again, it allowed me to stay afloat. But then the first real big chunky bit I got on was like, A thing that they did twice on the show called the rom bomb Video vlog blog, which was Mitt Romney’s vlog to reach out to younger people. Um, and it was just kind of a single shot, you know, like sort of a TikTok style thing. But years before TikTok, back when people were like vlogging, it was just Mitt Romney, Mitt Romney’s vlog, and that piece went really well. And then we did a second version of that, which aired. I think the day after my Letterman interview, which is funny because I remember doing Letterman, then I had to go back to Fallon and work with the editor all night on that, stopping only to watch my. Letterman appearance. And then, uh, a couple months later, I got First Drafts of Rock on and that felt like kind of a game changer. But yeah, it was probably about a good year until I really I hit my stride in like about 14 months. I would say after I got hired was when I was I got the sense that like, Oh, I think I could be here for a while. But going back to your question, I think what makes it really hard for a lot of people there is that it’s… So the show, The Tonight Show has a very, the audience that it aims to hit is a very wide audience. It’s like it’s a very, they’re kind of trying to get everybody to watch it, you know, and you would think that something with such a wide appeal, um, or a wide targeted audience would be, maybe easy to write for, because you could kind of go broad or whatever. But it actually is really difficult to write for because you have to, it’s kind of hard to write stuff that will sort of theoretically appeal to everybody. And it’s a thing that sometimes you will get writers of the show who had too specific or esoteric of a voice. That it just was too maybe weird for The Tonight Show. And then sometimes you would get people who just can never quite figure out, you know, what Jimmy wanted, or people who are just ultimately someone who’s like better, I think there’s a lot of writers out there who are just best at writing for themselves, but it’s a whole different set of skills to be able to write for, you know, this host. I think another thing where I really lucked out is that Jimmy and I have a lot in common in terms of like our sensibilities being more on the silly side, the dumb side, the musical side, you know, we have a lot of the same interests and loves. Music and SNL kind of being the two big ones. Um, so I lucked out in that sense where I think that there’s a lot of other people, you know, the show doesn’t do political comedy, the way that John Oliver does, you know, you watch an episode of John Oliver and you feel like you’re in grad school or something. And it’s a great, it’s a great show, but it’s so well, it’s different. It’s so well researched. Like that’s just not what The Tonight Show does. So it’s, it’s weirdly like almost trying to hit like the bullseye on a dark board or something, you know, and I can understand why someone would not excel at that. And I don’t think that it puts anyone above anyone else to be good at that job. And I mean, I mean, part of the reason that I left the show when I did was because I almost felt like my comedy brain had started to atrophy a little bit, and I had lost sight of like
That happens. I mean, that would. Yeah. After so many.
And you can only speak. You can only feel like you speak the comedic language of the show., you know?
Who was the best packet? Who had the best packet that you remember reading? They were like, we have to hire this person.
Oh, that’s a great question. I feel like. You know, a lot of times with the packets, it was not even so much that, like a lot of times you would hire someone also based on like seeing a standup performance or something or seeing them in a sketch show. The only packet I could think of off the top of my head that really kind of stood out was, uh, these guys, Ben Kronengold and Rebecca Shaw, who, they just got a TV show that they’re going to be making for a first season of it. I think it’s like an FX show. I want to say it’s called Snowflakes. And they were these two young writers who were like 23 or something when they got hired. 22 or 23. And, uh, their packet was great. And the reason it was great is because they, you could tell that they really took the time to work on it. They really, they like wrote a parody song for Jimmy that very much fell on Jimmy’s voice. It was kind of both silly and it had like hard jokes in it. And it was just like, well, the amount that they cared about the packet shows that they’ve watched the show. It shows that they like, or whether you can, I guess you can’t tell if they like this brand of humor, but it sure seemed like they did, based on how tight the writing was. That was one that definitely stood out. That was like, yeah, we kind of need people on the show like this who are able to write a tightly scripted musical thing who kind of clearly get Jimmy’s voice.
I have to ask. So the EP of Fallon is Lorne Michaels. Now at Conan, Lorne Michaels didn’t really go down a lot. Whereas with Fallon, at least there are certain times that he would be more present for Jimmy’s show. Did you have any interaction with him? I know that it’s probably frowned upon, um, for people to go up to him, but did you have any, any time with him?
Yes, I did. I went up to him. No, sorry. I never went up to him. I, uh, there were two interactions I had with him, which were not, neither of which were interactions, but there was one time that I went into Jimmy’s dressing room before the show. Sometimes like right before the show, you would have to like show Jimmy the final order of jokes. you know, if you move stuff around between rehearsal and the show, So I’m bringing this list of jokes into him and, you know, usually it’s just Jimmy, but now it’s Jimmy, the head writer, who was A.D. Miles, who is back as the head writer again. So it’s Jimmy, 80 miles and Lorne, and I’m holding this paper and my hand just starts shaking as soon as I see Lorne. And I just give it to Jimmy as quickly as I can. And Jimmy glances at and goes, great. Looks good. And I just left, got out of there as soon as I can. And, uh, the other time was, I was like going into the studio as Lorne was coming out and that I did not see him like until the doors opened and it just felt like someone needed to say something, you know? So like, I just, I just remember he went, he sort of goes, he was like, like, it was, if I were to write it out, I would, it would be a single lowercase “h.” And that was, I don’t even think it rounded up to a word. I think it rounded down to a breath, you know? Um, but I, I do remember seeing, I remember once seeing him when I think Paul McCartney’s, is Paul McCartney’s wife Stella McCartney?
That’s his daughter.
Oh, his daughter. Okay. Yeah. His daughter was there. And Stella was like with her grandkids or something, um, a bunch of kids and she’s just like, Oh, I have to run to the loo. Like Lorne was like out in the hallway and she basically just asked Lorne if he could just like watch the kids for a second. And it was so funny. It was just like, you’ve just made Lorne a babysitter because you don’t know, like you don’t well enough know, like what role he is. Like it was so funny.
What was it like when you auditioned in 2018 for Saturday Night Live? Did you audition at home base in 8H?
I did, yeah. I had to ask Jimmy for his blessing. I mean, I don’t know if I had to, but I
Smart man.
I was still a supervising writer at Fallon and I didn’t feel like there was any way that I could, you know, and I had wanted to audition for the show before, but there’s just never a good year for it for different reasons that, you know, I probably don’t need to go into. But in 2018, I, I was like, I’m 34. I feel like I’m getting about to the final age that you can be at where they would like hire a new cast member unless you’re like, you know, Leslie Jones or Michael McKean or something. And I scheduled a meeting with Jimmy, and I just asked him, I’m like, I wanted to see what you think about this, and he was immediately on board and very supportive. He could not have been nicer about it. He knew how much it would mean to me. And he was like, yeah, whatever you need, you know, any help you need with your audition or whatever. He tossed out a couple ideas, things that I could do. So then, You know, I didn’t even hear if I had gotten an audition, but I spent the next, uh, month and a half just working on an audition. And then it was like mid August. And suddenly I got a call from my agent. That’s like, yeah, they want you to audition, you know, this date. I remember it was August 28th, 2018, uh, which was, conveniently during the middle of a Fallon hiatus, so I basically got to spend that hiatus, like, you know, honing that set as much as I possibly could. And then in the set, you know, I did submit a tape to SNL. So I think they saw that. And then based on that tape, either the tape or based on Jimmy being like, you know, just give this guy an audition or whatever. I don’t know what it was, but they they invited me to audition. And yeah, I basically kind of did a mix of things for my solo show and things that I had done on Fallon. Which still in retrospect, I’m not sure whether that was a bad move or a perfectly fine move and a couple of other things, but I didn’t really have time to test anything in front of a live audience in New York because I was so busy being a supervising writer at Fallon. So anyway, The day of the audition, you show up there and you, you know, you go to the, actually for most of the day, I actually spent that in my office at Fallon, just like running through the, you know, and then I showed up at my call time, which was like 3 PM or something.
I was brought to a dressing room. It was Alex Moffat’s dressing room. And cause each person auditioning gets a cast member’s dressing room. There were I think 22 people that day and I was like 17th in the rundown and I’ve heard things about that. It takes hours and hours. This felt like it was not insanely long, like it felt like it was like 2 hours, but I was expecting to be waiting there for like 6 or 7 or 8 hours. I ran through the bit a couple of times in the dressing room, but I didn’t want to do it too much because I wanted it to still feel fresh on stage. And then you’re seeing people in the hall rehearsing. I saw my friend Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers, who I didn’t know super well, but we were friendly acquaintances. Uh, Chloe Fineman was there. Um, Ego Nwodim, who would end up being the only cast member that they hired that year. They hired Bowen, but as a writer, and yeah, then about five minutes before you’re supposed to go on Someone tells you, okay, we’re going to bring you now to the, you know, the back, the, you know, like the, the on deck circle, basically, which I think is the host dressing room. And then, uh, Gena Rositano who’s like been the stage manager there for years. She’s just sitting there talking with me calmly. And she’s the coolest. She actually was also the stage manager for Live From Everywhere. So I kind of knew her from, from that. And she’s just the best. And, uh, yeah, she brought me over to their other stage manager guy, Chris Kelly, different from the, the, the head writer of SNL. And, uh, Chris, Chris, You know, we’re backstage now under the bleachers, and he’s kind of whispering to me, okay, so you’re going to go out there, and they’re going to, uh, you’re going to go to the host monologue mark, and you’ll see the camera 10 feet in front of you. When the red light turns on, just take a deep breath, say your name, and then do your thing. And I was so nervous, and I just go. Okay. It’s like, so that’s like, that’s happening like now. Uh, and he was like, uh, yes. And it’s like, okay. So you go out there and then it’s like, you’re there in the studio and it’s, yeah, you know, the cameras 10 feet in front of you, 15 feet maybe. And then the, the, everyone who’s watching you is in this kind of jury formation where it’s like two rows, there’s like a front row and then like a raised back row. It really feels like you’re on trial. And I, yeah. I did not look over there because I, I knew that would throw me, but I peripherally saw Lorne and, uh, I knew that, you know, the people who must have been, there were like Steve Higgins, who I knew because he was an announcer at Fallon, uh, Erin Doyle, you know, like, you know, there had writers and supervising writers. So a lot of whom I knew and was, you know, friendly with, but none of that mattered in that moment. And then you’re just. You know, the red light turns on, and I think I said, Hi, I’m Arthur Meyer, and this is my audition for the television show Saturday Night Live, which also might have been a dumb move, but I just was like, what the f*ck? I’m going to do it because I think it’s funny. Yeah, then it’s a waking nightmare and a dream come true at the same time. Like, it’s a dream come true for all the reasons you would think it is. It’s a waking nightmare also for all the reasons you would think it is because people don’t laugh. I mean, there was one person, I still don’t know who, who was kind of laughing throughout, but it felt like that kind of laugh. That’s like where you’re trying to make someone feel good, you know, as opposed to like real laughter, but then there was like one or two things I did that did actually get a big laugh. One thing in particular was like, I did a Bernie Sanders impression of him gossiping and talking sh*t about Elizabeth Warren. And, uh, what was the joke? It was like, uh, you know, I, uh, something like I’ve heard that when, when she eats muffins, she also eats the paper wrapper that holds the muffin and she does that for cupcakes too again great leader terrific leader, but Warren eats the muffin paper wrapper And I did, I tried to model my audition off of Jimmy Fallon’s, which was like, do as much as you can in this very little time that they have show your range. So I did like six impressions, six characters and like a musical thing. Um, I think I did like a Seth Rogen impression, uh, Jack White.
You did that both on Fallon. I want to mention you did both of them.
Yeah, actually, I don’t think the Jack White one ended up making air on Fallon. We shot it like during the live show, but I think it got cut because it was called out of shape Jack White, and I think that they were worried that it would piss off Jack White, even though it wasn’t like making fun of, like a huge Jack White fan. Um, and what else did I do? I did sort of a Shaquille O’Neal voice, not like an impression of him, but kind of a voice that I used to do on the show. Oh, Paul Giamatti, which was one I did on Fallon and maybe a Ray Romano one, which I kind of regret doing just because everyone has one of those. Um, But yeah, it was about seven minutes. It was longer than it probably should have been. But I, in my mind, I was like, they’re not going to not hire someone because they went two minutes over. That would be crazy. Uh, and then, yeah, the only feedback I heard was like, oh yeah, well, so I got off stage and I remember thinking I, I would give myself an A minus on that. Like, I don’t think it was the single best that I ever performed, but I do think. Given the circumstances and just everything that you’re trying to take in, in that moment, it was about as good as I could have done it. Um, and I’ve always had a nervous tremor too. My hands always shake when I get nervous, which was sometimes a problem. At least it was a problem for me at Fallon, but I don’t know if it ever showed on camera, but I certainly was worried about it, but I don’t know. I just felt okay. I guess I just kind of felt, okay, well, here I am. Let’s do it. Let’s make it as good as I can do it. This is my one shot. And then, yeah, I got. And then, yeah, about a week and a half later, two weeks later, I got a call from my agent speaking in sort of hushed tones and I could already tell that I, I didn’t get it. And she said that it, uh, you know, the only real piece of like, creative feedback I got was that, uh, you know, might have been not the best move to do stuff that I had done on Fallon, but also like it was kind of unclear, like who that came from or but, you know, in retrospect, I think that probably was a good point. I just think again, I didn’t really have time to go out and test things in front of, like, live audiences in New York. I just needed to kind of go with what I knew worked, which, you know, I was like, well, if the stuff worked on Fallon, then maybe they’ll know how much range I have or whatever, you know.
I mean, how many of these people now that are superstars on that show had to audition multiple times? I mean, Dana Carvey, you said Chloe Fineman didn’t get it that you’re Sarah Sherman and Alex Moffat. Alex Moffat, I think had to audition like three times.
Yeah, he did. Yeah.
So you definitely have. People like that. It takes a while.
Yeah. It’s just so much is out of your control. You know, all you can do is just control the things that you can do, which is just like, what do I find funny? And what do I think will work with the show and what’s something that I could bring to them that they don’t have yet. But yeah, I think so much of people succeeding or even just getting on the show just comes down to luck and timing. That’s obviously not all of it. It’s like, well, if they didn’t have that massive cast turnover in 1995, like, you know, they wouldn’t have taken six cast members the next year, you know,
They never would have, um, they didn’t have a Groundling at SNL since, um, as a main cast member since Julia Sweeney, when they hired her in 90, and it was only because they had that really tough season that they’re like, we’re going to go back to set to Chicago and we’re going to go back to the Groundlings. And, yeah. I don’t know if they would have necessarily even considered, highly considered going to doing Groundlings if there wasn’t an issue.
Yeah, I agree. They were, they were probably like, we need to kind of go back to like some sketch comedy roots here a little bit and you just never know what they’re looking for. And luckily, I still had the job at Fallon, so I felt at an advantage in a lot of ways to, uh, Other people auditioning partially because I was already familiar with like performing in that building and like knowing how to perform with those types of cameras and in that kind of space, which like, if I had not ever performed in that, you know, in that building before I would have been, I think, totally freaked out by just the bigness of everything. And the fact that if I don’t get this, then I’ll just have to go back to UCB or whatever. Whereas with this, it’s like, well, if I don’t get it, then I go back to this job that I. You know, really, in spite of its stressfulness, really enjoying love, you know?
Yeah, go back to two floors down and you still have a job. At what point did you realize, or did you do this on purpose, that you realized that you could do all the hosts and you could do the musical guest on SNL? And you knew, I can’t do what you do. You’re able to do dates as well, correct?
Yeah, well, it was all from that book, which I’m sure you own or owned, the SNL: The First 20 Years, you know, that book that…
Sure. Yeah, I have it. Yeah.
Yeah. And that lists all the dates of all the episodes. And, uh, I think I just looked at that book so frequently that the dates kind of became embedded in my head in place of information that would be useful.
That was such an interesting book. I, you know, it was always one of those things where I just wanted to learn as much as I possibly could about the show.
Me too.
And that the, the sketch that they pick what they were going to, uh, kind of show the process of, of, of how to do, uh, write a sketch is a sketch didn’t do well.
Which sketch was it again?
It was Marilyn Miller’s, um, The Romantic Man. Alec Baldwin hosted the show.
Oh, right. Yes. That’s right when they’re kind of showing…
You know what, Marilyn Miller, it just when she got there, it was a hard season. That was a hard season just in general, the style of writing that she was doing was not necessarily conducive to what the show was at that point. And she didn’t get a lot on.
Right. I’ve always really liked that style of writing the slice of life stuff like you. So I don’t even know if
I think it would have benefited the show to have more of it. That is another example of an audience that just was not. By the time that that sketch even got on, which was after update, it just, you know, the audience wasn’t really there.
Yeah.
I didn’t feel that that was the case.
Yeah, I agree. It’s such an interesting, uh, though, approach to comment. I would love to see them do a slice of life sketch now, but I just don’t even think they’ve done one of those in years, right? Can you remember the last, like, what’s even the last slice of life sketch? The only one that I can remember from, like, semi recent times is 24 years ago, that sketch where it’s like Will Ferrell and Molly Shannon at the airport bar.
Oh, wow.
You know, but like, has there been one between then and now? Like, it’s just,
The things have changed a lot. Yeah, it’s, it’s interesting to look back. I feel like, and I could be off on this, that it was like that 1995, 96, Will Ferrell, Cheri Oteri come in, where they still would have hosts that would do, sing a monologue or sing a song that isn’t funny. I really, Danny Aiello has a great voice, uh, Madeline Kahn has a great voice, but I’m like people at this point in the show, the people that are watching, they just want comedy.
I do remember watching those musical bits that year in the monologue and being like, why are they doing this so much?
It was a theme. Sometimes they would get this on. They would go, um, Chevy Chase did, um, Jim, Jiminy Cricket. And then you had Schwimmer the next week where they had the TV theme songs. And then you had Tarantino come on and sing the theme to Bewitch or something, a song from Bewitched.
Yes.
And then you had, um, Gabriel Byrne came in and they played some Irish music and they had Fred Wolf and Colin Quinn on both sides. And, um, and then I think Laura Leighton, they skipped, but then they brought back, brought it back with definitely with Madeline Khan. She, she sang a song without jokes and then Aiello did the same. And I was just like. Um, and then Chris Walken came out and was, was doing it, but then they started, you know, had Walken in a Winter Wonderland. It was, that actually got a laugh at that part. But then they, they, they stopped doing that, I think probably wisely.
I agree. Yeah. Although it’s funny because my, as much as I was not crazy about those monologues, I would probably like them more now, just cause I don’t, now I’m just like, well, if it’s like, You know, if it’s enjoyable, then I’ll like it. But I think my all, maybe my all time favorite monologue, or at least one of them was sort of one of those, which was a one that Christopher Walken did, or he’s singing…
He dances with Jan Hooks.
Oh yeah. That’s right. No, the one I’m thinking of is the one where he’s singing like the, you say tomato, let’s call this whole thing off. Um, and Jimmy’s in it and it’s just, I don’t even know how to describe it. Like there, I don’t even know how it was written or what it was, but it’s just, I mean, the funny part of it is Chris, Christopher Walken goes, um, you know, he’s like, you say tomato, I say tomato, you say potato, I say potato. And then Jimmy interrupts. He goes, Oh, you’re supposed to say like tomato, tomato. Christopher Walker goes, Jimmy, look. They’re all spelled the same on the cards.
That’s very Chris. I, if there’s jokes, I, you know what I was one of the, I think one of the last times I was there at the show was, um, Jim Carrey and they did, uh, he did a whole song about pecan pie which had no jokes that I know of that and the last thing that I remember that was kind of reminiscent about when they would get somebody that would come up. And I mean, Jim Carrey is fun to watch and you know, and to do it, but I didn’t remember that being heavy on jokes. And it seemed like he was just, um, You know, just doing this thing and stuff, you know, the show evolves, right? I mean, it’s just, yeah,
it does.. I don’t know if a slice of life sketch would work anymore. Like, I don’t a slice of life sketch takes like a real attention spans. And back in the seventies, you know, you, you might have a great sketch that would sometimes go two or three minutes without a laugh. And it’s still a great sketch. You hear the audience laughing hysterically, like three minutes into the sketch. It was just a different time back then.
Yeah, you can’t do that now. Like, do you remember when they went to have music on? And this would upset me, but then they have a musical guest that would host, and then they would go over for the monologue and play one of their songs. So they would do two songs.
Yes. I hated that too.
Yeah. I’m like, I just want to see the comedy.
Me too. Me too.
I’m like, this is a good song, very talented, but I’m tuning into, I want to, I want to laugh.
I think my all time favorite, have you ever seen Frank Zappa do I Am The Slime from ‘76?
I’ve seen clips of that, but I haven’t watched the whole performance.
It’s just fantastic. It’s, it’s just so, yeah, it’s so cool. I mean, some of those 70s performances, David Bowie doing, um, When You’re A Boy and, you know.
I love the 70s musical, like Randy Newman playing and like.
Yeah, the 70s music was incredible.
Didn’t they get Tom Waits to do music or was that Ebersol?
Yeah, they got Tom Waits and
I’m talking, I guess, more, more modern and stuff, but
Yeah
I mean, Yeah. I love that special that they did, the music special that they did years ago, um, with just, yeah, they couldn’t, I mean, I’m sure they couldn’t clear it now to show it, but, um, maybe, maybe they released it. SNL does, I forgot what the special was, but it was a primetime show and I think it did come out on VHS to date myself.
Yeah, there was like a, there was like a five disc DVD that I had that, where they did some of the best musical performances. I remember it because each DVD had like a different person introducing it. And one of them was Al Franken. And he did the funniest bit, which he must’ve come up with, where he, he was like, Wow, uh, Saturday Night Live, this place has so much, uh, history. And he’s just like, he’s on a set and there’s like a ladder. And he goes, uh, right there is where they did that. Wayne’s world. He goes, right over there, that’s where, uh, that’s where Farley died. And then he’s like, and right over there, that’s where, uh, that’s where Belushi died. Just right up there on that ladder.
And that got in?
Yeah, like, I don’t think that anyone vetted it. He’s just like, that’s where Belushi died. Right up on that ladder.
Wow.
The idea of someone just dying on, like, on top of a ladder is so funny.
Yeah, it’s completely ridiculous. I’m Al Franken. So you can do every episode, the date, the host, and the music, or is it just, like, what years can you do?
Yeah, admittedly, admittedly, I’m kind of blurry on, like, that early 80s era.
I can’t do the Ebersol stuff at all.
Yeah, it’s kind of a different show, but, you know, some of the Ebersol stuff I could do, and then some of the 70s stuff I’m a little blurry, but, like, Feel free to quiz me if you want most of it from like 85 on like up until 2006 when I graduated college and I was like, I can’t be doing this anymore.
I’ll try. I don’t have anything in front of me, but I’ll do Justine Bateman.
Oh my God. Okay. Justine Bateman. Okay. Let’s see. This is 88. This is February. The musical guest was Terrence Trent D’arby.
That’s what I remember. Yes. I didn’t remember exactly when the date was.
I’m going to say it’s February 13th, 1988.
That’s amazing.
Can I, can I look it up?
Please do.
Okay, let’s see. Justine Bateman, February, again, my guess is February 13th, 1988. Yes, February 13th, 1988. I remember Tom Hanks hosted the next episode, and then the season finale, because the year was cut short, was Judge Reinhold.
Hanks was such a good, that one, I think that is one of the best episodes. Hanks and Edie Brickell, December of 1990. Um,
Yes.
I thought. I mean, they did the Five Timers Club and
Great sketch.
I think it’s Sandler’s first show that he’s on when they do Smigel’s Sabra, but they did that whole Dean Martin. Um, Hanks is Dean Martin. They do that whole, like, it’s like a climate. It’s like a Hollywood, a Christmas special, but with climate change.
Christmas special. Yes. By the way, another time. Another Tom Hanks episode, all Time Great, was October of 88. It was a great one. It was their season premiere of that year.
Oh my god, was that one, was that Aerosmith or was that not, was that a different one?
That was, uh, Keith Richards did that one.
Oh yes, that monologue’s really funny, I remember that.
The monologue is great. They did a great debate sketch in that episode. That’s also the episode where Phil Hartman rips his arms off as the Olympics guy. You know, doing steroids.
I heard that was a Jack Handey piece. I don’t know if that’s true or not, that if Jack Handey wrote that or not.
Oh, wow. I mean, I could totally see it, but it’s so funny. That’s a, that’s a weird, fun fact that I’ve never heard mentioned about SNL is that Tom Hanks, uh, hosted, uh, Two out of three of their shows in a row were hosted by Tom Hanks. So it was like, Tom Hanks hosted, then Judge Ryan Hold, and then the next episode was Tom Hanks.
He could have easily been a Buck Henry back in the 70s and just shown up all the time and been phenomenal. I mean, he was one of the best.
Agree.
Let’s, let’s pick, I want to see, I want to put our skills together. I’ve never done that.
Yeah.
Look, let’s go like 1992, 93 host and we’ll alternate. I don’t know if I can do this or not, but I will try.
Oh, this is a great idea.
I’m going to go, um, Nicholas Cage with, oh, yes.
Okay. Oh, you’re doing musical guest too.
It was Bobby Brown.
Yeah. Bobby Brown.
And then you go next. And then we’ll keep going.
Okay. This is the best game I’ve ever played.
I can’t believe we’re doing this. But this is amazing.
I know me too. I know, like I have a child and I’m like, I need to, you know, I, I should be a responsible dad. Um,
I think you’re going to beat me on this, but keep going.
Uh, Tim Robbins, Sinead O’Connor.
That’s right. And then next one was the three was Joe Pesci and spin doctors.
Yep. And then we got, um, Christopher Walken with, uh, wait a second. Oh my God.
Oh, I know, uh, Arrested Development.
You’re right. And then tell me if I have this right. This is my recollection. Catherine O’Hara, 10,000 maniacs.
That is correct. And then we have, um, friggin Michael Keaton with Morrissey.
Oh my goodness. And then, I don’t know if I’m going to get this in order, I thought after that was Sinbad and Sade.
Yeah, you’re correct.
Okay.
Uh, and then Tom Arnold with, uh, okay, wait, shoot. I know the next host and I know the next musical guest.
I know the music guest on this, but I don’t know who the next, well, I can guess who the next host is, but.
Was it, um, Oh, was it Neil Young?
Absolutely. 100%. That’s the first time that Thursday was the first time I met Spade. I got Neil Young’s autograph. I was taking the tour. And I was like, I go like, went out on the sidewalk and Spade got out of a cab, I’m freaking out and got a photo and with him and stuff, I was,
I would, I would kill, I would kill to have your life circa like 92 to 95.
There, there were definitely, um, at some point I’ll do an episode or write something about it, but there were definitely some good, some fun stuff I got, I, I got to do. So after Tom Arnold, I knew. The Glenn Close and Black Crows were there, but I don’t know if it’s the one, is that the one right after?
Yeah.
Okay, that is, and that’s the, that’s the Christmas episode, right? Okay.
Yep. Then we come back from Christmas, and we got .
We’re going, this will be then January of 93, right?
Yes. And so we have, uh, Danny DeVito. And, oh my god, Danny DeVito, I know who the host and musical guests were the next week. Do you know the musical guests for DeVito? I’m trying to…
100%. It’s, it’s, this person’s son just married somebody from Stranger Things, the cast, this person’s son, the lead singer.
Huh. Oh, my God, Danny DeVito, sh*t. You gotta tell me,
Bon Jovi.
Bon Jovi, I knew it. I knew it was Bon Jovi. Okay, keep going.
See, you know more than I do. I’m just good with the certain seasons. Um, the next one is Harvey Keitel Madonna. I was up that we have to see, um, that was I remember, um, that Thursday, Kevin Pollak did Letterman, Siskel, and Ebert, and I was around in New York. So I got, that was the first time. I ever met Mike Myers and, um, a bunch of the people that were Letterman guests. That was, um, that was pretty amazing. Farley had just, I remember that Thursday he had like a beard. He had just come back, unfortunately, I didn’t know what at the time from that was his first show back from like rehab and stuff.
Oh, there’s rehab. That’s right.
Um, and that was the first time I ever got his autograph and he was very nice to me. Uh, I go back to Hershey high school and I’m like, yeah, that was, that was amazing. Going back to…
Yes.
…Harvey Keitel, Madonna.
Luke Perry, Mick Jagger.
Oh, my goodness. Um, I’m going to say I don’t know. Is it? Is it? Is it Baldwin McCartney?
It was Baldwin McCartney. And then we have Bill Murray Sting.
This is where this is where I think I’m going to, oh.
Yeah, me too.
I don’t know if I’m going to get this or not. I don’t…
I know this is a tough one for me too.
I don’t think so. Like I can go. I can go to the end of the season and work my way.
Yeah, let’s do that. Let’s go to the end of the season and work back.
We can do this together. You have Kevin Kline, and then you have Willie Nelson and Paul Simon.
Yep. You have Christina Applegate with Midnight Oil.
That is absolutely 100%. And then before that, man. I know who the hosts were. I know, I know that, like, for example, you have that, that, that, that Kirstie Alley, Jason Alexander, Miranda Richardson, um, John Goodman, I just, in terms of the order, I’m trying to think who would have come after Sting. I, I, I’m probably wrong on this, but I’m going to go with, or Roseanne and Tom Arnold, but.
No, no, that was the previous season.
That was before, that was with, with, um, um, Red Hot Chili Peppers was before, that was the season before. I’m gonna go John Goodman, which I could be completely off, and it was either Garth Brooks or Mary J. Blige, um, I’m thinking I’m thinking by then it might I don’t I don’t know I’m going…
It was… John Goodman and Mary J. Blige
Okay. I didn’t I wasn’t sure but yeah, that. okay.
Um, and then yeah, then Miranda Richardson and Black Crows. This is by the way, March.
That was actually Miranda Richardson and Soul Asylum. I’m so sorry.
Oh, sorry. Soul Asylum. I know you’re right. I
You knew it.
I knew it. I can I always confused Soul Asylum and Black Crows because aren’t they both like long haired like metal bands or yeah,
Dave Pirner. And I did want to say, um, Jack Handey did write that sketch when John Goodman hosted. It was the whole Soylent Green is people and then they did the Soylent Cow Pie.
Oh, that’s great. It was a Jack Handey. Man, the, the, the Jack Handy, Phil Hartman thing is just a thing of beauty.
Oh man, I, uh, absolutely.
Is there, is there like a better, there’s a few, maybe there’s, I, that would be an interesting thing is like, what are the all time best writer cast member pairings? And I would say that’s, that’s gotta be way up there.
I think that the two of them, Smigel and Carvey for sure, just going through all that stuff.
Smigel Carvey, Ferrell McKay.
That would, that’s a great idea to go through on that. We gotta get going back to this. After the John Goodman one, I’m… was it I don’t know. I could be off Jason Alexander, maybe?
No, I think it was, uh, John Goodman, then Miranda Richardson.
With Soul Asylum, and then Jason Alexander and Peter Gabriel.
Yeah, and then, uh, Kirstie Alley and, uh, Lenny Kravitz, I think. That’s
Absolutely correct.
Yeah. Damn it, I only got Bon Jovi wrong, and I would have remembered that if you had just asked me in the morning, but my brain is bad and in the late afternoon.
Oh, come on. You, you have the skill set. I’m only good again for like, I can do like six or seven seasons.
I think we can at least both agree that we’re both crazy people. Mark.
I haven’t gotten a long time with that. We’re both insane. Anybody that could do this. This is, um, don’t judge us people. Um, This was unlike any other podcast I’ve done, and I have had a good time. I’ve been thoroughly entertained. I hope the audience has. But, um, just the fact that your knowledge and what you know impresses, impresses me so much. And I’d love for you to come back at some point if you’re okay with it.
Yeah, I would love to. Of course.
How did this go?
You’re great. You’re great, too, by the way. I love this. This went great. I love, um, this has got to be one of the single best comedy podcasts for comedy nerds. You ask all of the when I listen to episodes. I mean, I can’t speak to this one, even though I think you did a great job with it. But just as a listener, just so you know, you ask all the best questions to your guests. You ask questions that are so specific. And I’m like, I haven’t heard those questions before. And they really come from a place of passion and love for the late night genre.
I really appreciate that.
Yeah, of course. And I, I once heard Chris Elliott interviewed and he was asked about his time at Letterman. And he said that he felt like that he was a good overlap with Letterman because his brand of comedy is very disposable. And when he said that, he clarified that he didn’t mean it in a self disparaging way. And I love that because I feel like that’s so much of what late night is is disposable in the best possible way you that’s what gives you the quantity, the amount of material that you get is kind of the just you just do it and then you hope for the best and then some things will live on in late night history, and most of them won’t but that’s part of the beauty of it all. And you seem like someone who really fully appreciate that
Right back at you. And I mean, when you come back, I mean, yeah, wrote some of the most famous Fallon pieces like Will Ferrell dressed up as Little Debbie. And you got to write for all these people. And there’s just, um, I’m just looking at my notes and so much of the stuff that you’ve gotten to do. I mean, it’s incredible that somebody that just was putting on a sketch show with his sister growing up that was so, uh, just really into this show and just everything you’ve gotten to do. I’m so glad that we got to do this, Arthur.
Me too.
I’m grateful. And once again, I do want to mention your, is it your digital series? Can you please?
Yes. Digital series because web series, well, they both sound pretty lame, but, um, ABC parenting, if you just look it up on Tik Tok, Instagram, YouTube, ABC parenting, and I host it with Stephanie Drake. And I really hope that you watch it and subscribe to it. I hope you like it.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Mark.