Inside Richard Dawson’s Promising, Ill-Fated Bid to Be Tonight Show Host

Johnny Carson reigned supreme at The Tonight Show for 30 years, and while nobody could usurp him, a select few came close to succeeding him. In fact, with Carson often threatening to quit, NBC had a short list of successors culled from his most promising guest hosts.

On April 20, 1979, Family Feud host Richard Dawson began cementing his place on that list. Over the next year, Dawson would endear himself to Tonight Show viewers, encounter a couple of hurdles, and cement a rapport of verbal jousting with Carson.

LateNighter spoke to Dawson’s son, Mark, for a rare peek behind the curtain at his father’s days as a guest host and his cordially combative relationship with Carson. (Richard Dawson died in 2012, at age 79.)

Dawson Gets His Dibs In

When Dawson made his Tonight Show guest-hosting debut, he had been in the thick of his Family Feud run and fresh off of hosting Bizarre, an ABC sketch comedy special that originated as a pilot—the Alphabet network’s attempt to compete against Carson and NBC in the late-night space.

The day before, news had broken that Carson was on his way out of The Tonight Show. With new NBC president Fred Silverman insisting Carson increase his Tonight Show output, the host had been growing increasingly frustrated with his contract. Carson had told NBC that October 1—the 17th anniversary of his debut—would be his last show. With that news, the opportunity to guest-host The Tonight Show was a bigger shot than ever before. The race was on to replace the king of late night, and Dawson would become a frontrunner.

Dawson landed at The Tonight Show because producer Fred de Cordova’s wife, Janet, was a fan of Dawson’s and suggested him to her husband. De Cordova went for the idea, perhaps aided by the fact that he had directed Dawson in an episode of The Jack Benny Show 16 years earlier. Hosting The Tonight Show was a role that, from the jump, Dawson proved interested in.

“I’d love to do that show,” Dawson told The Washington Post after his first night filling in for Carson, which the paper noted featured a “larger-than-usual ovation for a guest host.”

“But nobody can do it until Carson decides whether he’s leaving or not, because that show is like a suit for him,” Dawson noted, before making a pitch about his own appeal: “I think I could bring people to that show who normally wouldn’t watch it.”

The Tonight Show That Never Aired

Dawson stepped into the role effortlessly, and would go on to host The Tonight Show a total of 14 times over the course of a year, including a couple of week-long stints. 

That number would have been higher, but Dawson’s promising run was also unusually ill-fated. Early on, he logged a rare and historic footnote in the annals of Tonight Show history by presiding over an episode that didn’t air as planned.

On October 3, singer Della Reese was in the middle of her second musical number when she suffered an aneurysm and collapsed on stage. 

Comedian Pete Barbutti, a frequent Tonight Show guest who was also part of that night’s lineup, was watching from backstage.

“Della always was a great singer. She got about four bars in, and she started to sing out of tune,” Barbutti recalls to LateNighter. “I said, ‘Uh-oh, something’s wrong.’”

Barbutti rushed out to the stage. “ All of a sudden, she collapsed and started throwing up,” he remembers. “And there is no curtain. You can’t shut it off. The whole audience, 500 people, were witnessing this.”

For a moment, the crowd assumed it was part of Reese’s act. Dawson called out for a doctor; a doctor and nurse from the audience responded, Ebony later reported. Together with Dawson, they carried Reese backstage. Doc Severinsen’s band, initially trying to fill the silence with music, stopped playing.

“It was the first time ever that a Tonight Show guest collapsed during a taping,” Ebony reported via an NBC spokesperson.

Reese would undergo brain surgery over two weeks later, and eventually make a full recovery—but in that moment, it was all touch-and-go. 

Some 40 minutes after her shocking collapse, De Cordova approached Barbutti.

“Guess who’s on now?” he asked the comic.

“You can’t be serious,” Barbutti replied.

But he was. The show was going on. Following Barbutti’s set, Dawson attempted to casually explain Reese’s sudden absence for viewers at home.

“ I’m sorry, Della Reese couldn’t stay,” Dawson said. “ She had another engagement, and I’m sure she’ll be alright.”

After the show, the producers gathered Dawson and the night’s guests for a meeting. If Reese died, they realized, Dawson’s remark would have played too lightly.

“They put the show in the bag, and it was never seen,” says Barbutti.

In a rare instance for The Tonight Show, the episode was never broadcast.

A Not-So-Heated Rivalry

By that time, Carson had relented somewhat in his standoff with NBC, assuring Tonight Show viewers he’d “definitely stay beyond October 1st,” though he was still eyeing an exit. “I may stay longer, possibly into 1980,” he said.

As for Dawson, he proved capable in his dozen-plus shows, interviewing Tonight Show favorites like Jack Klugman, Joyce Brothers, Fernando Lamas, Phyllis Diller, Kreskin, Orson Bean, William Shatner (see video below), and former Tonight host Steve Allen.

Before taking on the emcee duties, Dawson was far from a Tonight Show regular. He’d guested on the show twice before—in 1972 with guest host Joey Bishop, and in 1973 for Allen’s own debut as guest host. Dawson, though, had never sat down with Johnny Carson. In fact, the two had nothing more than a passive history with each other.

Years earlier, Dawson had made a friendly overture to Carson upon learning that they were both fans of actor/comedian W. C. Fields. Dawson owned a bust of Fields—a face cast that had been taken of Fields to fit him with prosthetics for one of his projects. “He went and had another one struck, and then had it bronzed or something,” Mark Dawson shared with LateNighter. “I think it was Christmastime, and he sent it to Carson.”

Though still several years out from his successful stints on Match Game and Family Feud, Richard Dawson had been known in the industry at the time as a regular on the CBS sitcom Hogan’s Heroes. Even so, his gift seemed to fall on deaf ears to Carson.

“Long story short, [Richard] sent him the bust and never even got a call or a thank you note. Carson got it and just never replied,” says Dawson’s son. Though he felt slighted by Carson’s lack of response, the two hosts’ relationship would soon come to be defined by moments when Carson did acknowledge Dawson—with a number of direct jabs.

Beginning in 1973, Dawson was a regular panelist on CBS’ Match Game revival, and proved so popular with viewers that producer Mark Goodson developed a spinoff concept around Dawson as host. In 1976, Family Feud premiered, and Dawson developed an on-air trademark for which he’d forever come to be known: kissing each female contestant for luck.

Over on The Tonight Show, Dawson found himself a subject of Carson’s monologue jokes, some more cutting than others. In response, “My dad would retaliate at the opening of Feud,” says Mark Dawson, recounting his dad lobbing jokes back at Carson over the airwaves. “That went back and forth and back and forth.”

One of Richard Dawson’s last digs at Carson came after The Tonight Show host delivered a jab that felt “a little more vindictive; dug a little deeper,” says Mark Dawson—perhaps recalling this one from a June 1981 monologue:

“Want to have some fun next week? I’ve got a great idea,” Carson quipped. “Let’s send a girl with herpes over to Family Feud and let Richard Dawson kiss her.”

On Feud, Dawson responded with a nod to Carson’s tumultuous history of marriages, saying something to the effect of, “I saw your monologue last night… I wonder if we should talk to some of your ex-wives to see if you’re really that nice country boy from Nebraska. I think they may have a slightly different perspective,” Mark Dawson recalls. 

“I think Mark Goodson decided to cut that part out of the monologue, which they rarely ever did,” Dawson’s son says. “I think they said, ‘This is a little much for daytime TV.'”

While that sparring made for something of an “intolerable relationship,” as Mark puts it, it didn’t point to a deeper rift between the hosts.

“I think because Feud was so popular, and the money generated in commercials and whatnot helped offset the cost of The Tonight Show and Carson, they just would kind of snip at each other,” Mark explains. (Beginning in 1977, NBC’s owned-and-operated stations often aired the syndicated version of Family Feud just before primetime.) “But it never got down to, like, the Wayne Newton episode where he barged into Carson’s office.”

Dawson, Heir Apparent…?

For as much as Dawson had become fodder for Carson, he was also fast becoming a contender to replace the king of late night. As Carson’s contract dispute raged on, the TV Guide magazine offshoot Panorama posed the question of who could replace Carson in its March 1980 issue, citing “at least four heirs apparent.” Those four, per the mag, were David Brenner, Robert Klein, a pre-Late Night David Letterman, and Dawson.

Dawson didn’t come from a stand-up comedy background like the other contenders, but neither did Carson.

“Dawson could have easily replaced Johnny,” says Mark Malkoff, host of LateNighter’s Inside Late Night and author of Love Johnny Carson. “He was witty and likable. Most importantly, he had the ability to do a monologue. A game show host, which Johnny had been, transitioning to late night talk show host would have made sense.” (Carson had been plucked off ABC’s Who Do You Trust? to host The Tonight Show.) 

Barbutti, too, remembers Dawson’s tenure fondly. “My judgement maybe is clouded by the fact that he was really a good friend,” says Barbutti. “[But] he was very, very good. He was a good guy, too.”

According to Panorama, Dawson’s candidacy made sense to those at The Tonight Show as well. The guest host not only maintained “fair” ratings in the absence of Carson, but was well-liked by Tonight Show guests and staff, who gave him “high marks for preparation.”

Dawson also proved bolder than his fellow contenders. “During guest-host stints, he openly jokes about his desire to replace Johnny on a permanent basis — something Letterman, Klein and Brenner have never dared to do,” Panorama‘s Sam Merrill wrote.

Another voice who acknowledged Dawson’s candidacy on-air? Carson himself.

“There is a Johnny Carson doll, strangely enough,” Carson joked during his monologue in December 1979. “But you open the box and inside’s a little Richard Dawson doll.”

All in all, Dawson was seen as a definite name on the shortlist, though not at the very top. “At the moment, Richard looks like about a 6-to-1 shot,” Merrill quoted a source from the William Morris Agency. “At least one top NBC executive gives Dawson an even better chance than that,” Merrill added.

“Right up to the end,” the William Morris source added, “Dawson will remain a very dangerous wild card.”

It wasn’t just the press lobbying for Dawson. According to Mark Dawson, Tonight Show sidekick Ed McMahon also voiced his support for Richard’s succession.

“Ed McMahon came out and made an announcement that once Johnny leaves, he was going to leave, too—unless, of course, Richard Dawson was the replacement. Then he would stay,” Dawson’s son recalls. “Ed and my dad had gotten along really, really well. [But] I was quite shocked to hear that from Ed McMahon.”

At some point during his run, Dawson confronted Carson directly about the rumors, his son says. 

“Are you really leaving, or is this just to get more money?” Richard Dawson asked.

“No, Richard, I promise you, I’m going this time for real,” Mark says Carson told his dad. “I don’t think there’s anything they could do to bring me back.“

That night, guest hosting again, Dawson made a plea in his monologue. “I want the job!” he said, dropping to his knees. “I really want the job!”

Such pleas were for naught. Despite his assurances to Dawson, Johnny Carson in May 1980 renewed his deal with NBC, recommitting to The Tonight Show for another three years.

Dawson Makes a Fateful Judgement Call

Over the years, it’s been rumored that Dawson’s Tonight-less fate was sealed before Carson renewed his deal. His final guest-host spot came in April 1980, just over a year after his run had started. He was scheduled to command that entire week of shows, from April 21-25, but fate would intervene that Friday, which would have marked his 15th time hosting.

At 1 a.m. on April 25, just after Dawson’s Thursday taping concluded, the White House announced the failure of Operation Eagle Claw—an attempt to rescue 52 U.S. citizens and diplomats taken hostage by an Iranian student group at the U.S. Embassy in Tehran. A helicopter collision killed eight servicemen. In light of the news, Dawson felt a new Tonight Show would not be appropriate.

“He called them [and said], ‘I can’t host tonight. The country’s in mourning. What am I going to do? Go on and tell jokes? People are not going to want to hear jokes at this time,’” Mark says of his father’s decision. 

In Dawson’s mind, cancelling a show was not exactly uncharted territory. In just 14 episodes, he had already witnessed a change of schedule firsthand with the never-aired Della Reese episode.

“He thought it was like another Della Reese sort of thing, but on a grander scale,” says son Mark.

The story often goes that Dawson’s pulling out on short notice angered Tonight Show producer Fred de Cordova and made Dawson persona non grata at the show.

Ramey Warren, a talent department staffer on the show, recalled as much on Malkoff’s The Carson Podcast in 2018. “ He left the show high and dry at two o’clock in the afternoon,” Warren recalled. “I think there was no question that he was not going to come back.”

But according to Dawson’s son, if de Cordova took issue with Dawson dropping out, he didn’t say so. The producer, he says, presented himself as being understanding.

“I think you’re right,” de Cordova reportedly told Dawson, saying he’d hold a meeting to figure it out. “We’ll either get a host or we’ll just go black for the night.”

The show went on. Actor and game show regular Bert Convy was tapped to sub in, and Dawson would never host The Tonight Show again.

‘Let’s Play the Feud!’

Shortly after that series of events, Carson’s new contract became news, making any potential fallout a rather moot point. But if Dawson was ever blacklisted, it didn’t last too long. Two-and-a-half years later, he’d be back on Tonight, in the guest chair. 

“I remember being at the house and the phone rang,” Mark Dawson remembers. He answered, and on the other end was Johnny Carson.

Carson was calling to pitch a skit on The Tonight Show. Carson had devised a sketch with the Mighty Carson Art Players that would pit Ronald Reagan and family against Queen Elizabeth and the Windsors for a game of International Family Feud. Carson would play Reagan, and he wanted Dawson—who was still hosting the real Family Feud at the time—to play himself. Dawson agreed and, on November 5, 1982, made his first appearance on Johnny Carson’s Tonight Show since his run as guest host. The sketch went well enough that it became a staple in Tonight Show anniversary specials; behind the scenes, Carson was appreciative of Dawson’s participation. 

“It seemed like the hatchet was buried between the two,” Mark Dawson says.

But the visit didn’t come without some now-classic Carson-Dawson sparring. Dawson was also sitting for an interview in that same episode, his first ever with Carson. Backstage getting make-up done, the two seasoned TV emcees traded another set of barbs.

“So Richard, what do you want to talk about tonight?” Carson asked Dawson. And then, after a beat: “All the diseases you can get from kissing?”

Dawson’s comeback cut deeper. Earlier that year, Carson had been arrested for a suspected DUI. Just weeks before Dawson’s visit, the Tonight Show host had pleaded no contest and was sentenced to a three-year probation.

“No, Johnny. Not unless you want to talk about the dangers of drunk driving,” Dawson shot back.

With that, Carson backed off.

“Carson turned to him and said, ‘No, let’s just leave both those topics alone,’” says Mark Dawson. “And [Richard] said, ‘Okay, great, I think that’s good.’ And they went out and had a very good show.”

Even so, that 1982 visit would be Dawson’s last time on The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson. He wouldn’t return to the franchise until 1994, when Jay Leno had taken over as host. To Mark Dawson’s knowledge, that decade-plus absence wasn’t borne of any feud between Carson and his father.

Regardless, Dawson had already solidified his legacy as one of the few hosts who ever gave Johnny Carson a run for his money.