Mark Schiff is probably the only comedian to curse out Johnny Carson’s legendary comedy booker Jim McCawley… and still get on booked on The Tonight Show. A working comedian for over 50 years, he’s also appeared on Late Night with David Letterman and The Tonight Show with Jay Leno.
Over the years he’s worked with just about everyone who’s anyone in the comedy world, from Eddie Murphy and Jerry Seinfeld, to Mel Brooks and Rodney Dangerfield. He also fostered a friendship with Katherine Hepburn—and had Bob Dylan over to his apartment for tea!
This week on our Inside Late Night podcast, Schiff regales Mark Malkoff with stories that span his career in show business, including the time he auditioned for Saturday Night Live with some ill-considered props—namely, three actual pigs heads. (He didn’t get the job; in fact, the group of people he was auditioning for left the room before he was finished.)
Click the embed below to listen now, or find Inside Late Night on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
- Buy Mark Schiff’s Book: Why Not?: Lessons on Comedy, Courage, and Chutzpah
- Subscribe to Mark’s Podcast: We Think It’s Funny with comedians Danny Lobell & Mark Schiff
- Mark’s Official Website: https://www.markschiff.com/
- Follow Mark on X: https://x.com/markschiff
Show Transcript
Mark Malkoff: Mark Schiff, nice to see you again. It’s been a while.
Mark Schiff: Hello, Mark. I like Mark and Mark.
You spell it right too. I, I, I like that. So, I, I wanted to ask you, I mean, people you’re known for doing standup. I mean, you’ve been pals with Seinfeld, you open up with, uh, with him on, on the road, thousands of people internationally. I didn’t know that you auditioned for Saturday Night Live, and I know you have a really good story. When was that? What were the circumstances?
So, when I was living in New York. Saturday Night Live would have auditions open, you know, audition, bring in some actors, and they’d look at some standups and you had to put together three or four minutes for, uh, the audition. So, I tried to think of something different than, you know, I didn’t really do characters, so I tried to think of something different. So I was working, I had a, a manager at the time named Tom Stern. So Tom, and you ever see three card Monte where they do this in the street? They, you know, they’re, and you have to guess, and it’s all a scam. So we decided on Three Head Monte and we went down to the, uh, Latino section of town where they sell whole pigs. But we bought three giant pig heads that was, you know, severed, you know, uh, and uh, we got them home and we had got a table and the, uh, the bit was “Three Head Monty” and there would be something under one of the heads and the Saturday Night Live people had to guess what it was. And then we added jokes to it, like, you know, the pigs had their eyes in, so we made it. So I go, here he is doing an impression of Sammy Davis, Jr. I would squeeze in the eye, would shoot out of his head. It was really thorough and what we had to do, because we got it on a Friday and the audition was Monday over the weekend, we had to freeze the heads because you couldn’t leave the heads out all weekend, cause they would rot and they would droop and the ears would go down and uh, and…
I just wanna ask a few things. Um, one is this the Dick Ebersol era? Is this the Lorne Michaels era of SNL?
This is early on Lorne, Michaels era.
So this is still the seventies. With the seventies original cast?
Late seventies. Well, if it was there, it had to be, well, maybe 80, 81. Was that Ebersol then?
Yeah, Ebersol was there in 81.
Okay, so that’s when it, that’s when it was, was it
Was the audition at a comedy club back then? They didn’t audition you at 8H?
No, this was at, up in the offices.
Oh, in the, on the, on 17th floor. Okay. So you, you were bringing pigs head, actual pigs heads…
And not little ones, giant heads. Each one weighed maybe 10 pounds, 15. And, um, I, I brought it up in a hefty garbage bag. So if anybody ever stopped me on the way up there and they said, excuse me, uh, security, what have you got here? And they looked and they saw three giant pigs heads. I might have been arrested on the spot going into the building. So this performance of mine went so south that they all got up and said, I gotta throw up. You know, they, they, they found this so utterly disgusting in every way, shape, and form. And at the end, the one guy was left, he said, just clean up and get outta here. And I, I. There’s a garbage can at the end of the table. So I just rolled each head into the, and you would hear this giant thump into the garbage can. And then I left like Santa with this big plastic thing over my shoulder with the heads, and I, uh, never heard from them again. Now, that said. If I was good at that, that might’ve been one of the great ideas of all time those things, you know, if Andy Kaufman did that. It might have been like the thing that they said, this guy’s a frigging genius.
It can go either way. Who do, do you audition for? Do you remember?
I don’t. I don’t. You know, it was so, you know, you get a people in there, you, you’ve never seen, they’re just executives. So I had no idea, but there were three, four, maybe five of them. One was a woman who just ran out the door so fast when she saw these heads.
I have to ask around because I’ve never heard that. Back in the, in the Eddie Murphy era, Eddie, um, auditioned Murphy auditioned in the 17th floor offices. So maybe around that time. I wanted to ask you about Eddie Murphy, just real quick, because I still to this day cannot believe with his success, one of the most famous, successful comedians of all time, and it still seems that it’ll come up in an interview and he’ll talk about it. That comedy contest in 1980, he doesn’t seem over it. He doesn’t seem over the fact that he didn’t win. And that he, he’ll, he’ll justify the fact that he’ll say, you know, uh, it was, I think that he went on first or last, or which whatever he went on first or last, it, it stacked the audience in the… And, um, it was definitely, they, they were laughing really loud either in the beginning or the end, but he has all these reasons, um, or at least a reason why he didn’t win. But I just can’t believe that he still talks about that. You and Carol Leifer, this was like 1980?
Carol Leifer, Steve Middleman. Uh, Eddie, me, Rick Overton, and who the heck was it? Dom Irrera? I Don’t remember who the fifth one was. Mark Wiener, I think maybe. But anyway, yeah, Eddie came in last. There was a competition. Robert Klein. Uh, Robert Klein was the host of the show. Eddie came in last and couldn’t believe it and has been b*tching bout it for 40 years.
I’m always so surprised with certain people’s success, and I, I’m not gonna mention by name, these iconic people that, you know, they have their millions of dollars, their acclaim, nothing to prove to anybody, and it’s, instead of focusing on all of those, I guess that’s human nature. It’s just something from like decades ago.
The truth is Steve Middleman did the best set of the night. He was spectacular that night. All the laughs in the right places he deserved to win. I don’t know if Eddie deserved to go last. I came in second I, in fact, I just had Carol on my podcast. We think it’s funny and Carol and I talked about it and uh, she couldn’t believe it either, you know. But listen, you know, it made Eddie stronger probably. I’ll tell you about a Eddie Eddie Murphy story. I lost weight. Recent, not recently, about 10 to, I don’t know, like 50 pounds, which is a lot of weight. But I used to be 50, 60 pounds heavier. So I called up Eddie’s managers, uh, Richie Tienken and Bob Wax when Eddie was playing the Westbury Music Fair. And I had not seen Eddie in a couple years. And Bob and Richie got me the ticket and I went there and I said, I went back to the dressing room to see Eddie and he’s, he’s lying on a couch like this, waiting to go on. He sees me and I haven’t seen him in years. The first thing he says is, Schiff, you got so fat.
Is that motivation to get in shape? I mean, I know you, you’ve lost, you lost a lot of weight and you’ve kept it off. But
Yeah. Dom Irrera, you know Dom Irrera, I’m sure.
Of course. Yeah. Yeah.
He was a big part of my motivation to, to you. This is absolutely true. One night I was at the, uh, Laugh Factory, ready to go on. They’re introducing me. They go, and now ladies, gentleman coming on stage, A funny guy. You’ve seen him. And Dom walks up behind me, whispers in my ear, and goes, you are so fat. And I turned, I, and I went up on stage and all of a sudden I realized my shirt was sticking out and my head was like, round and uh, it got me, he got me at that moment, I decided to lose weight and I never looked back.
Wow. Um, do you think Eddie Murphy said that to you because he had spite because of the contest? Do you think that that’s why he he, did that dig at you that he just, or do you think that was just Eddie?
No, that was, I think, yeah, you know, something, I didn’t put that together. I didn’t put that together, but that’s a good possibility. Yeah. Because it was after, and that’s just the way it is. But Eddie, you know, listen, I’ve, he’s always been very nice to me and, uh. You know, who could be more successful? He is made great movies and everybody has their little quirks.
Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s incredible. I mean, I talked to people that started with him and he would tell people, he’s like, I’m gonna be famous by the time I’m 20 or whatever it was, I’m gonna be, he would tell all these people and they’d rolled their eyes and he was completely correct.
Where most people have one personality, he has 10. Yeah, he’s just large and he’s great.
He, it’s amazing success. When was the first time that you went over to Carson show? Was it with Seinfeld when he debuted in 81, or were you there previously?
Yeah, so we all went over together. This one of the big differences between New York and LA comedians, the ones that started in LA. it was a very friendly atmosphere in New York. People weren’t cutting each other’s throats. People were very helpful. People were very supportive. We didn’t have television we were going after like, you know, sitcoms, we were just trying to become comedians. Everybody was like, California was a little more, um, dark. So when we all moved out there, eventually when people were doing The Tonight Show, we all went as like a, a team. And we were Jimmy Brogan and Michael Hampton-Caine, and Jerry. and Larry Miller. I went to like Ronnie Shakes a great comedian who. He did. I know, 12, 14 to something 13 tonight shows. I went to every single one with him and when I went, I brought people with me. And then we go, we’d go out to dinner after to celebrate it.
I really like that community, that famous photo of you and, uh, Seinfeld and Jimmy Brogan. I think that was Jimmy’s first shot and, um, I think Mike Caine. Yeah. Um, it’s such an amazing photo of all of you right after at se in Johnny’s parking spot with the Johnny Carson sign.
So one of the greatest things about doing a Tonight Show was you parked in whatever spot they gave you. And then he told you, just walk straight ahead and go through that door, and that’s the studio. But you had to pass Johnny Carson’s parking spot. And when you saw that, that’s when it began for you. You go, okay, I’m in the right place that says Johnny Carson. It’s got a star over there. Here’s a, uh, he, he a, uh, he had a stingray Corvette that he would drive in from Malibu. At that time, I did notice I, everybody looked in his car, you know, to see like what was in there. He had, everybody had, uh, cassette tape that they would listen to. He had learn Chinese and he. Of how to speak Chinese.
He was incredible with those languages. He was taking, he took, um, back when he was doing and doing the Vegas shows, he was, he was learning Spanish and he would have people come on the show and he would speak Spanish with them for a while. And then he learned Russian and then he was taking, um, uh, he learned, um, how to. When he went to Africa to speak, um, Swahili. Unbelievably curious man with those languages. Uh, very ambitious. That’s interesting.
So when I was on the show, what I got off his desk after the show was one of those two-headed pencils. Right. You know, the pencil?
Of course
Eraser on each side.
I have one.
So I had one too. And I, I have an office outside my house. I can’t work in the house. I can’t work where there’s a refrigerator or a bed. Those two things are career killers for me. So I have an office, which is the, uh, you know, a desk and chair. Anyway, I had one of those two headed pencils off the Tonight Show desk there. My office was robbed. And, um, about two years ago, they cleaned me out of my computers, my speakers, everything. And they sent, they took a garbage can. They cleared everything off the desk and threw it in the garbage can. One of the things was that pencil and more than missing the computer, thousands of dollars worth of stuff. That pencil meant everything.
It says a lot. I’m so sorry that that happened. I. You have such a unique story because you did the show with Carson five times. You did it with Jay once when he was a guest host. But it was one of those things where McCawley, I, I have to, I give him credit. The fact that he wasn’t one of those people, for the most part that would say, you know, I’ll get back to You’re great. He was a pretty straight shooter. I mean, he would tell people, you are not right for the show.
Right.
And one night, this might have been around 1982, I don’t know if it was the comic strip, it was in New York where. You got a standing innovation. And for people that have, don’t go to comedy clubs, that rarely happens. So you absolutely destroy McCawley is there, McCawley then is leaving the club and you, you run out and, um, what do you say?
Right. So I got off the stage and he spoke to all these other comedians, you know, but he didn’t come over and talk to me in the bar. So I followed them out. It was a rainy evening, and uh, he was walking away. I said, Jim, and he turns around, Hey Mark, how are you? I said I’m good, but, uh, what do you think of the set? He goes, it, it was very, very good, very funny. I said, I got a standing ovation. He goes, you know, I saw, so I said, what do you think? He goes, well, to tell you the truth, it’s not right for Johnny. It’s not what Johnny likes, you know. He goes, you know, I, I know what Johnny likes and even though you did really great, it’s not for him. I said, but I got a standing ovation and I, I, I pressed him on it. He says It’s maybe some other time. But it’s, it wasn’t right and he turned around and walked away. And I was in a period of my life when I was, uh, still drinking too much and angry, and I yelled at the top of my lungs. F you, you know what the F stands for?
I, I think I do. But I wanted to ask, is it one of those things where the words were out of your mouth before you kind of realized what you said? Or was it a decision in the moment?
It was, it was anger. It was anger coming outta my mouth.
And what did he say in response?
He turned around and he said, what’d you say? And I said it again, f you. And he points at me, he goes, you will never ever do the show as long as you live. And he turned to walk away. And I knew my career was in the garbage. I knew it was over. I had no point. I didn’t go back to the club. It was nothing. If I couldn’t get to tonight’s show, I was not gonna have a career.
Seven years. I mean, you wait seven years, you’re in San Francisco one night. And did you know when you got on stage that McCawley was there? Or did you just do your set and he,
I, I saw him come in. I went over to him and I had seen him over the years coming into the, uh, improv in, in LA and into the LA comic store, you know, comedy store. And I had said hello to him, but I never brought up that night. Never brought it up. And he never brought it up. He walks into the club, it was the punchline in San Francisco. I walk over him, I say, Jim, how you doing? He goes, good, good. I said, whatcha doing here? He goes, I, I came to see your opening act for the show for for the Tonight Show. I said, great. You. Then he said to me, you know, I’ve got nothing to do after, do you mind if I stick around and watch you? And I said, yeah. And I could feel my bowels get loose at that point because, you know, anyway, I went up, I did an hour. He came over to me after, I don’t know what happened to the other guy if you got the show. I really don’t know. He came over to me, he goes, that was great. You, you, you got the show. Call me on Monday. And two weeks later, I was on the show. And he worked the material with me and he never brought up what I did and I never brought it up. And I know that he knew what I did because that was a real scene I made. You know, it’d be like me clipping you over the head with a brick. You know? Right. Because I don’t think any other comedian ever did that to him.
I’ve never heard anything like that. But seven years is, um, you know, time, time heals. I don’t think Johnny Carson probably would’ve, he would’ve probably have not given you a second chance. May maybe. ’cause he, he just was very, um, he was very delicate and if somebody said that to him, it would be over. But, um.
So let me just tell you. Jim McCawley. God bless him in his next life. He passed on, he was 100% right. By not booking me on the show when I thought I was ready, I was not ready to do the show. Even if I did it and I did, I probably would never have been on again. And he knew what he was talking about. And the fact that it never, it came up again. It was, i, I, I just think that he totally forgave me and, you know, there was no reason to bring it up. And, uh, we, uh, we became kind of friendly with each other.
The thing that I’m sure when he saw you seven years later and you do an hour, is he’s like. Mark has at least four, if not five appearances right here.
Yeah.
I mean the problem was a lot of comedians would go on and know and not home have maybe one or two sets that were tonight’s show. Right. So you go on the show, this is February of 1989. Bob Einstein. Is, is is in character, is Super Dave Osborne, Park Overall, um, is also on the show. And did you bring your parents at to this one, your first one?
My mother. My mother, my father had passed on.
Oh, I’m sorry. And, and is Seinfeld and all the guys like Brogan and all those guys there at this point,
Brogan was there.
Okay.
I dunno if the other guys were in town or you know, they were off there, you know, already on the road doing their thing there. But my mother was there and then we had a big dinner after, but I had like 15 friends meet me at this Italian joint and it was, uh. It was extraordinary. It was it, listen, that was the biggest thing you could do at that point in your life. And no show has ever compared to it. And uh, thank you Johnny. And he was always nice to me. He would stop by the dressing room after the show and say, thank you, Mark. And he’d walk, he’d have a little thing under his arm with little book notes or something from the show. And, uh, he was amazing.
Not only that, but you were back pretty quickly and then, you know, Seinfeld, it took him five appearances to get waved over. And then on your, it was your third appearance that, uh, John Larroquette was on panel.
Yeah.
And uh, he waves you over. There are certain comedians that have automatic panel and um, you can kind of tell that they’re after standup, they’re gonna go over, but that was still, you know, you have to. You know Johnny, he’s like, no, come on over and calls you
And you don’t know if they’re calling you over. You’re behind the curtain with Jim McCawley. And he goes, stand there after the set. Take your bow. Look over the Johnny. Thank him. And if he goes, you know, if not, come right back here and you look at him. And then sure enough, and it was a beautiful moment sitting with him. We, we went to a commercial and he was gentle and generous. Two Gs. You know, he said to me, a lot of times when you go on talk shows, now they say this to you, they just bring, let’s say, sex with the wife. They, they’ll bring up stuff and they’re very, so, uh, Mark, uh, you know, how’s your, how’s you, how’s your marriage going? You know, Johnny couched it like this. He goes, you know, mark, um, I don’t know you. It’s the first time we’re really, you know, talking here. And if you don’t mind, I’d like to ask you a question. How’s, how’s your marriage? And he couched it so gently. It was beautiful. Like he wasn’t really prying. Or stuff. It was a nice moment. It was. It was. It was. It was very classy.
You went on the show so many times for somebody that debuted in 89, he leaves in 92. You go on again on your fourth time. Dolly Parton is on panel. You’re waved over. He said, come over here. Come over here, Mark, and you, you come over and then this is the biggest compliment to me is less than five months until Johnny’s gonna retire and everybody wants to be a guest on the show, on January 30th, 1992. It’s Michael J. Fox, you, Jim Courier and uh, Tricia Yearwood. What was that like with all that energy? The audiences that last year we’re out of this world.
Outta this world. It was amazing and, and it was Christmas time with Dolly. It was a, I think like a Christmas thing. It was amazing. The, the audience was always good, but, and it was twice as good when Johnny was there making it happen. It’s kind of a, you know, listen, if you had Don Rickles, it’s good, but it’s not Johnny. It was hosting. It was amazing. It was amazing, you know, and I, and I went, um, after that, the last week, two weeks of the show, I went backstage, uh, just to watch backstage.
It was you and George Wallace went to the show, and it was Mel Brooks and Tony Bennett. Why were you there? Just to, did you know either of them or did George know either of them?
No, just to say goodbye. To the show that meant everything to us. It’s like, you know, Moses going back up the mountain, you’re not gonna see him anymore. We just wanted to pay our homage and luckily we were known enough to be welcomed backstage when we weren’t on. George Wallace said the funniest thing in the world to me, Tony Bennett was rehearsing I Left My Heart in San Francisco and George turns to me, he goes. You think he really needs to rehearse that song anymore? I just thought it was so funny. You know, it’s it that said it all. Tony probably sang that 38,000 times. He goes, I think he knows it by now. You know, it’s like one of those.
He sang it on Johnny’s very first show, October 1st, 1962. So you meet Jerry Seinfeld and. 1976 and he, he debuts on the Tonight Show four years later in 81. What was Seinfeld’s debut like? Was Jerry nervous backstage? Was he, he doesn’t seem like the nervous type, but I mean, it’s the Tonight Show and his father Cal Seinfeld took out some sort of ad or something and the newspaper, my son’s gonna be on The Tonight Show, and…
Jerry was very nervous. We’ve talked about it. I don’t think he’s ever been that nervous about anything. We all were. I mean, you know, this, this was, in a good way, the electric chair, you know, you, you, you know, you, you standing there and, and if it doesn’t go well, you’re gonna be electrocuted. It’s over. And, uh, Jerry was, uh, you know, as nervous as a human being can, could get.
After that he wasn’t nervous though anymore as much. I mean, was he nervous? People told me he, after that he, he wasn’t nervous.
It may not look like it, but even now. We all have a, before we do our shows, you know, I’ll go with them to 3000, 5,000, 8,000 people and, uh, there some nights, Jerry, we wonder, do I have it tonight?
So interesting after all that time. Yeah. I mean, still some of the, I know like for example, I know that you worked at, when you were in New York when you first got here, that you worked at a Broadway theater and you have some of those people that have had decades of amazing careers, movie stars, and still get nervous. How did you get to know Katherine Hepburn? And she just seems like somebody that, you know, Johnny, they tried to get her on the Tonight Show. She never would do what she did, Kat show once and she wasn’t sure if she was going to do it, and she ended up doing it. It was wonderful. But how did you, how did you get to know her?
So, Gilbert Gottfried. Rest his soul. And I worked at the Broadhurst Theater. We, if you’ve been to Broadway, you know there’s a candy stand there where they sell drinks, beer, soda, whatever it is, and candy. So Gilbert and I were the candy guys. We got $7 and 50 cents a show. And on Saturday there were, there was a matinee, two shows or something on Saturday, you know, two and seven. And we got, so we made $15. And one of the greatest things about that job. When the show was over, that was on 44th and, uh, between seventh and eighth, the improv was on 44th between eighth and ninth. So we were done with work around 10 o’clock at night. We’d just go to the improv when they were just opening up and hang out there. So Katherine Hepburn was in a play called a Matter of Gravity with Christopher Reeve. One day somebody said to us, you know, Katherine Hepburn, if you ever wanna meet her. She comes in before the play two hours early to open up all the doors in the theater because she refused to work in a hot theater. Hot theater means people were tired and full asleep. So she opened up every door upstairs, downstairs. So Gilbert and I went and there she was just like the guy said, he showed, she showed up and started opening the doors and we said, uh, Mrs. Hepburn, we work in the, uh, the candy, uh, thing here, and can we help you? She said, no thank you. I’ll do it myself. And she did it herself. She ran upstairs, downstairs. The next day she came, we were there again. She said hello to us. She didn’t have to. And then after we kept showing up, and then after about a week or two, I don’t remember how long exactly, she said, you can open the doors upstairs. So we opened the doors for her upstairs and then she started talking to us. And she started telling us stories about Humphrey Bogart and James Cagney and working with… really nice stories, sweet stories, nothing, no gossip, nothing nasty. And uh, she became friendly with us. And she asked us what we did, the improv. We invited her to see her show. She wouldn’t come. And then one day towards the end of the run, she comes in with a gift for Gilbert. Well, first of all, one day she came in with a book called Cagney by Cagney, which is James Cagney’s autobiography. She autographed that to me, gave one to Gilbert, autographed it to him, gave us each a copy. Said, read this. It’s a great book. And then towards the end of the run, she comes in, I have it inside if you want, I can get it and show it to you. She did a drawing by hand of her character in the play and she came in with it framed, one for Gilbert and one for me, and she gave us this as a gift. It’s probably the greatest gift I’ve ever gotten, uh, outside a tie from my son. But, uh, no, this was absolutely amazing and she gave me her phone number. Katherine Hepburn gave me her phone, phone number, and one day, I don’t know why I, I just said, I’m gonna call her and, and then I’m thinking, what am I calling Katherine Hepburn? I, I sell candy for $7 and 50 cents. This woman won four Academy Awards. What have I got to say to her, but I called her, she picks up the phone. Hello? I go, hi there, Ms. Hepburn. This is Mark Schiff. Oh yeah, Mark, how are you? I said, I’m, I’m good. Why? What can I do for you? I said, I’m just calling to say hello. She goes, I’m having a party tonight. Why don’t you come to my house? I said, what? And she gave me her address in Turtle Bay and I went to her house and there she is standing at the front door of the, uh, townhouse. It’s four stories high. She owns the whole thing. And I walk and she says, go in, have a good time. And I see on the staircase these statues, and I go over and look at it. And they’re her Academy awards. And they’re not really prominently displayed. They’re just a, and I said, and she goes, what are you looking at? I said, these what? She goes, oh, they’re my awards. Go have some punch. And uh, you know, it was unbelievable. And there was a, a, a bust of her that it was made by like, Picasso, you know, just something that’s probably worth $40 million now, just sitting there. She couldn’t have been nicer. After that, I lost touch and I decided the, the run was over and some relationships, this is what I understood, just like a Broadway play has a certain limited run. My relationship with her had a limited run. That was it. And I never wanted to ask her for anything, or I just was so grateful that I had this moment with her.
Good memories. And then you and Gilbert, is this when you were regulars at the comic strip, you’re walking one day together and you ran into Woody Allen.
Yes. So Gilbert and I, we were fairly new at the clubs. We were made regulars. When you’re made a regular, it doesn’t mean you’re ever going on. It means you have permission to stand at the bar and maybe they’ll give you a glass of wine or, or a Coke for free. So we would go to the improv first and we would stand there from like 10 at night, nine 30 at night to like 1130 and realize, we’re not getting on, they’re not gonna put us on. So we’d walk over the, um, catch rising star or the comic strip. Improv is 44th and ninth catcher, rising Star, 77th and first. So it’s about an hour walk at night, 11 30, 12. We get to Central Park, fifth Avenue. We’re walking down fifth Avenue around 62nd, 63rd street. I see these two guys coming at us and I look, I go, Gilbert. He goes, what are you yelling? And he goes, yeah. And the guy with him we realized was Marshall Brickman. And the two of them are walking. And now you gotta remember Central Park.12 o’clock, midnight, not the safest place in the world. And they’re, as we walking, I go, Woody and he, well, and we, we tell him we’re comedians. And on our way to catch a rising star, we were just at the improv. Then he realized we were legitimate and we asked him, we said, listen, Woody, is there any way we can come meet with you and talk to you about comedy? And he said, yeah, yeah, I’m at Michael’s pub. Just come down on Monday night, we’ll talk. So we go down to Michael’s pub the next week in between sets, we go over to the stage and we go, uh, Hey Woody, Mark, Gilbert here. You told us to come down. He says, yeah, I can’t talk this week. Uh, I got something else, but come back in two weeks. And we came back in two weeks and then we told him we were there in between sets, he took us to a table in the back and we all sat down, the three of us, and this is what he said. If you are here to tell me how funny I am, how much you like my comedy, and, uh, you know this, I don’t wanna talk anymore. If you really wanna talk comedy, let’s do it. But I don’t wanna hear adulation, I don’t wanna hear this or that. And we talked, we talked about his Tonight Show appearances, which we, neither one of us had done yet, we’re barely getting on stage. He talked about how he prepared for the show, how much writing he had done, and then to cap it all off after it was amazing. Jack Rollins, his manager. We went to a party, Hillary Rollins, Jack’s daughter was having a a party for Jack, Woody’s manager. Robert Klein’s manager. Dick Cavett’s manager. And we went to the party and I told Jack what happened that Gilbert and I, uh, Woody met with us. He said, I can’t believe it. He goes, I’ve never heard Woody do this for anybody. Ever meet with them like that. It’s just not him. He said, he must have felt something very special from you guys.
How much time did he give you?
40 minutes. It was amazing.
That’s a lot. I mean, for someone like him.
It was amazing.
You have done so much television, but I did wanna ask one thing evening at the Improv with Vincent Price as the host. What was that like? Getting brought up by Vincent Price.
It was amazing to actually meet him in person. You know, the great Vincent Price. You don’t get to spend much time with those guys, you know, like, um. They bring you up, you shake their hand, you thank them. But so really didn’t spend much time. It was like one night at the, uh, laugh Factory. They would film, um, comedy, uh, you know, the, one of the, uh, Sunday comics or something there. And Eric Clapton was in the house, uh, band that night. So, you know, he got a chance to meet him for a minute. By the way, you have that Mel Brooks poster behind you?
Yes.
That’s, uh, yeah. Do you know my Mel Brooks story?
I’d love to hear your Mel Brooks story. He, he was really nice to me. I, um, he was on my podcast, my Carson podcast. And then, um, I got to talk to him again, um, maybe two years ago for, we talked maybe like, I don’t know, like a half hour or something. But he’s been very nice. And Carl Reiner same.
So before I get to that quickly, I, I went to George Shapiro who was, uh, Jerry’s manager for 35, 40 years and a great manager. And, uh, he handled Andy Kaufman, all kinds of people. So anyway, uh, they had his memorial and I’m sitting there, it’s at Paramount Studios. This was like two and a half years ago when he passed on, and it’s the end of the memorial and getting up. First, Dick Van Dyke got up, he was 96 at the time, walks up on stage himself. Talks about George Shapiro, Mel Brooks, 96, 97, walks up on stage, funny as can be. Talks about his relationship with George Shapiro. Norman Lear, a hundred, gets out of the wheelchair at the side of the stage, walks up the steps by himself and talks about his relationship with George Shapiro. And then Jerry closed the show, the memorial. It was quite a. Mel Brooks, I was writing on Mad about you. When you write on the show, on the, they shot and admit about you on Friday night, what happens is during the shooting, if a joke dies, the uh, executive producer will yell anybody got anything? So like, you deliver a joke and the audience doesn’t laugh, and they gotta replace it if possible. So Mel Brooks delivers a joke, just completely in the tank, the joke. Producer goes, uh, uh, anybody got anything? And something popped in my head and I’m a new writer on the show and I go, I got something. And Mel Brooks comes over and he whispers. He goes, waddya got for me. And he said, just whisper to me. ’cause he didn’t want the audience to hear it first. This way it wouldn’t be a punchline. So I gave him the pun. I gave him the line. There was the punchline to the joke, and he delivers it in the filming. He gets a huge laugh. One of the great moments of my life, I, on the spot, I hand this joke to Mel Brooks. He delivers it. Big laugh. I was like, uh, you know, all of a sudden I’m the star for like four minutes. And the punchline, I don’t remember what the whole setup was, but the punchline was, nobody has ever seen a live whitefish. That was the punchline. And somehow Whitefish, Jewish, not alive, you know it. It got this huge round of applause. It was such a great moment for me.
Mel Brooks. Melvin Kaminsky. I love hearing, hearing that.
He’s 98 now and still kicking.
Yeah, I talked to him a couple years ago and it was great. He was as funny as ever. What are the circumstances in 1976 that Bob Dylan goes over to your apartment. You did not know Bob Dylan.I, you know, when you look at people today, especially mysterious celebrity, that people still have the mystique. I mean, there’s very few people that still have a mystique about them, and Dylan is one of them, but what was, what were the circumstances?
Yeah, so look, look at the name of Bob Dylan’s movie that came about him. A complete unknown. That is a perfect title for who Bob Dylan is. People who, to this day still don’t know who he is. I’ve been very blessed. There’s something about me that when I ask people something to do something that nobody’s ever asked them to do, they agree to do it. So Bob Dylan, we were at the Bottom Line, which is a nightclub in New York. It was mostly a music room, and that was a room that, when you, they would come into the improv to see comedians to go open for musicians. Uh, there, and there was no pay, you know, it was like, uh, $200 or something like that, but it was an honor. It was 500 seats in Manhattan, uh, in Greenwich Village. Always sold out and a great audience, but I went to see a show and it was a Buffy Sainte-Marie concert. She was a, a folk singer from the sixties, and Bob was sitting there with his wife, Sarah, and a guy named Louie Kemp. I didn’t know Louie’s name at that time. I’m the biggest Bob Dylan fan in the world. I pick up the menu from the bottom line. It’s a yellow menu. I get, I get a pen from a waitress, and I walk over to Bob. I go, Bob, can I get your autograph, please? And he goes, yeah. Hey man, man. And he signs his and he gives it to me. I don’t know why I did this. I said, Bob, you know I only live about four, five blocks away. After the show, how about you and your friends coming over my house for a cup of tea? That’s all I said to Bob.1976, he’s the biggest there is now. Blood on the tracks is either just came out or about to come out and he just stares at me like he’s looking into my soul. You know? He just can’t believe what he just said. He said, all right, man. After the show, man, I’m gonna go sail. Hello to Buffy. I haven’t hadn seen her in years, man. Then we’ll come by, write down your address, man. I write down my address, I give it to him and I said to him, Really? You, you gonna come here man? We’ll be there, man. And I leave after the show, I go home. An hour goes by. No Bob Dylan. I’m with my friend Bernie Ferrara, and uh, I got a roommate up there who’s a gay roommate. His name was Tim. Very nice man. In fact, he said, if I knew Bob Dylan was coming, I would’ve baked a cake. That’s what he said. So anyway, all of a sudden, an hour later, there’s a ring at my bell. I opened the window. I look downstairs. There’s Bob, there’s Sarah, there’s Louis 60 people following him. There’s like 63 people there now. So I run downstairs, there’s no elevator. I run down, open the door, and Bob looks at me, looks at this group of 60, he goes to these 60 people. Hey man, there’s my friend. I gotta go, man. Nice meeting everybody. And he comes in with Louie and his wife. They come up to my house, I make them a cup of tea and they stay for 40 minutes. And Louie didn’t say anything. Sarah didn’t say anything and Bob refused to reveal anything about himself. Anything I asked him, he turned in on me, kept asking me about what I did for a living, how long I’ve been writing, how long I’ve been this, how long I’ve been, and then after 40 minutes of talking, interviewing me, he goes, Hey man, I gotta go. I’ll see you again, man. And the dream was over. It was, it was. I had the same thing with Anthony Hopkins. Anthony Hopkins, arguably one of the greatest actors of all time. He was in a play called Equus and I was again working, selling candy at a theater next door. I went by and after the show I was in a theater group running, acting, and the the director said, you think you can ask Anthony Hopkins if he would come down and talk to these young actors? I got him after the show. Meanwhile, Equus, he was on stage for three hours talking constantly, like six minute monologues. He’s out. He comes out the stage door. Do I go, uh, Mr. Hopkins. He goes, uh, yeah, you know, his English accent, Welsh, whatever. I said, listen, I’m part of a, uh, acting company with Young com, you know, young actors, would you come down and talk to us? And he just stares at me like, he goes, who are you? I said, my name’s Mark Schiff. I’m a young actor and I belong to a little acting company. Would you come down? He, he just stares at me. He goes, all right, here’s my phone number. Gives me his home phone number. Comes down there three times, different occasions with scenes from Chekhov and Shakespeare, and he starts directing all these young actors in these scenes and teaching us about acting. It’s unbelievable.
Power of asking. Power of asking is you, you just never know. I mean, I, I would say most people with, with people like this, you know, they don’t really treat them as regular people sometimes, or humanize them. And somebody like Bob Dylan, people probably, he never, you know, Sinatra used to say, no one asks me for interviews. And maybe that’s, people just assume I, I’m not really sure, but
It’s like these beautiful women that go, you know, nobody asks me out on a date because they’re afraid that I’m, you know, or whatever. Well, lemme tell you that Hopkins thing ended. One night, Hopkins used to drink a lot. He’s an alcoholic and he, I’m not just telling you, he’s, you know, he’s admitted it. There’s videos where he is talking about his alcoholism online on YouTube calls me one night, two in the morning at home drunk and he’s just railing about the artistic director of our little company and he says, Mark. Is bad news. You and the young actors need to get away from him. He’s dangerous and he didn’t have more to say about it, but he was very, get away from this guy, he is bad news. So anyway, we hung up, didn’t talk to him again. And over a short period of time after he said that, this artistic director started getting really weird outta nowhere, started smacking people, grabbing people, and dragging them by their wrist. He was everything that Hopkins said he was, except none of us could see it, but Hopkins saw it first, and I’ve seen Hopkins over the years, ten times out here in California. We kind of know each other a little. And every time he brings up about that artistic director being bad news,
Did that artistic director ever go on to do anything?
No. He, he knew his stuff, but he was just, you know, but he was just not good. And he was, he was said nasty things to young actors, but the fact that Hopkins could see through him.
Not everyone has that ability, for sure. Getting back to Bob Dylan, then a couple years later you run into Dylan again. Do, do I have that right? That you, you saw him and you said hi to him,
So I went, oh. So Louie Kemp, Louie Kemp, who was Bob Dylan’s road manager for many years, also is they went to some Jewish summer camp together and Bob was his best man at Louie’s first wedding. Um, Bob Dylan was performing at the El Rey Theater in, in Los Angeles. And I called Louie. I, I had met Louie. It’s really weird. I was at, uh, uh, for Shabbos. I was at the synagogue called Aish HaTorah. And I see this guy and I said, you look familiar. And he goes, my name is Louie Kemp. I go, Louie Kemp, you came to my house in 1970. This is like 20 years later. I said, you came to my house in 1976 with Bob Dylan. And he, he remembered, because they, they never did that. You know, who goes to some stranger’s house? We became friends and then I, there was a Bob Dylan concert and he said, uh, listen, you want to go? I’ll, I, I’ll pick you up at your house. I got some passes. I said, okay. And then he goes, first we have to go get Joni. I said, Joni who? He goes, Mitchell, we’re gonna stop at her house and get her. So, we go to Joni Mitchell’s house up in the canyon, and we get in there, she’s smoking a little weed and smoking cigarettes. And then we pick her up and then we go to the concert. But Bob had left or something right after. So even Joni didn’t get a chance to go back and see him. But that was quite the night being with Louie and hanging out with Joni Mitchell. I mean, it was really quite extraordinary. Again, it was the power of asking.
And then it was the grand, his Grand Dylan’s grandson’s Bar mitzvah. And you happened to be there. Is that true?
No. In my synagogue, Young Israel of Century City, which I still go to, it was his grandson’s, uh, bar mitzvah. People said, I think, I think Dylan is supposed to come here, and sure enough, comes in late. He’s wearing a coat that long coat, full length down to your legs, red, like little red riding hood color, all red, and he looks like a homeless guy. He just comes in by himself, sits down, somebody comes over and says, would you like to come up and get an Aaliyah? Which is, you come up when the, they got the Torah out and you, you read this little blessing. It’s an honor. He turned it down. His son, um, his, his grandson did his stuff that you’re supposed to do at the bar mitzvah. And as soon as the, the kid was done, Bob didn’t even say hello to him, really. just left.
That’s very Bob Dylan. Um, I don’t know if he can go anywhere without people coming up to him and
A complete unknown.
Yeah, it’s unbelievable. Uh, Bob Dylan. You have this podcast with Danny Lobell, who I’ve known for a long time. Very funny man. The podcast is, We Think It’s Funny, you’ve had so many of your, your comedy friends over the years that on Paul Riser, I know Jay Leno was on as well, and I wanted to ask you, there, there’s a story, I, I really don’t know it, but Danny told me to ask you if that’s okay, that there was something with Jay when he got there before taping.
Yeah.
The recording. What happened?
So Jay was so kind, you know. Uh. Our, our podcast, We Think It’s Funny, there’s a new podcast. We don’t have a lot of people yet subscribing and watching. And I went over to Jay and I said, I work with him on Sunday nights at the Comedy Magic Club a lot. And, um, he’s there every Sunday for the last 30 years when he is in town, maybe even longer. So I said, I’m got a podcast, would you come? Uh, and, and he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I’ll be there. Gimme. And we, we work out a date and, um, the podcast, we’re filming him on Monday. And Danny lives in this yellow house. It’s painted yellow, and I get a call on Sunday afternoon. Hey Mark, this is uh, Jay here. I’m outside the house here. It’s the big yellow house, right? I said, yeah, yeah, yeah. He goes, yeah, yeah, I’m looking sure that’s the address. I said, yeah. I go, but Monday, the show we we’re filming tomorrow, not today. This is unbelievable. He says to me. Well, you know, I just wanted to make sure I knew how to get here and I was at the right place. ’cause you know, I wanna be on time tomorrow and I wanted to see how the parking is. And, uh, I said, are you kidding me? You went a day early to make sure you were gonna be on time and you got a parking space in the house. This was the most professional, ridiculous, professional thing I’ve ever heard in my life. And, uh, sure enough, he shows up 15, 20 minutes early before we did the podcast. He was one of the great guests of all time. People can learn from him. You know, one of the things about standup comedy, you, you, this, this, you cannot be late or an actor, you know, this isn’t a job like, you know, in a law firm where, you know, you, you can just saunter in at five after nine instead of nine or 10 after. You get people crazy when you’re late. If, if you’re a club owner and I’m have a nine o’clock show and it’s eight 40 and I’m not there yet, and the guy calls me or she calls me and they can’t reach me, we got issues. I get everywhere at least an hour early.
Sinatra is very always five minutes early they say. Without a doubt. I mean in his Sinatra always. I getting there early. I love hearing that.
He was a stickler. He was a stickler on time. Sinatra.
Yeah, that’s what I was told. I wanna talk about your book. It’s called Why Not? Lessons on Comedy, courage and Chutzpah. Somebody wrote the foreword. Their name is Jerry Seinfeld.
Yeah.
You’ve been friends with Seinfeld since 76. Is that when you ask him to do something like that, is it just, is it that, is that an easy ask just to ask Seinfeld to write something like that?
No, it’s, it’s not an easy ask because. You know, how many asks Jerry Seinfeld and people of that level get.
Constant.
Constant. Everybody that writes a book that knows him, wants a, uh, you know, something from him. And he, by the way, I had a book before that I killed True Stories of the Road, and he did the forward to that one too. So I asked him and um, he thought about it for a minute and he goes, sure. Sure I’ll do it. And I thanked him. I’ve, you know, I don’t, I’ve been, I’ve been on the road with him now for 25 years. I’ve asked for five things in 25 years. You know, it’s once every five years. I’m happy. I’m grateful for the job. But you, you can’t push these guys because they, there are so many people that are, I mean, he gets letters from people that are dying. You know, please call my son. He’s in a coma. You know, I mean, it’s like nonstop. So, uh, he did the forward, and if you read that forward, that is one of the most gracious, it talks about me like I’m frigging Charlie Chaplin. I mean, he says so many. He, he, there’s a line in there. I don’t think I could have gone down this comedy road or world without Mark Schiff.
All your peers, Paul Reiser, I mean, so many of them will say the kindest. I mean, just true things about you and your ability. But that’s, that’s great everybody, um, check that book out. I did wanna ask you, and I don’t know if you, if this is, um, in, in the book too, I have to check it out, but was there a night. I heard it, it was, I don’t know if it was the comic strip that you, did you throw something at a comedy booker or somebody adore person
That was pre Jim McCawley. I was getting ready to tell Jim McCauley to go f himself. Uh, later on in my, my illustrious early career. So one night I met the improv on 44th and ninth, and Bob Shaw was the mc, a very funny guy, had some great routines. He says, all right, Mark, you’re on, uh, next. And I said, uh, great. And I’m, you know, when you’re on next, you’re getting ready and you’re nervous and you wanna go on, you wanna do well. It’s just very early in my career, you know, and I, you had to do good every shot. So I’m ready. And then all of a sudden, Ronnie Shakes walks in and I was friends with Ronnie and I love Ronnie. And Bob goes over to Ronnie and says, Hey Ronnie, would you wanna go on next? And Ronnie goes, yeah, Ronnie doesn’t know that I was promised the spot. So Ronnie leaves and goes, wherever he goes, the bathroom, I dunno where he goes. And I went over to Bob, I said, he said I was on next. He goes, yeah, well Ronnie came in and he, I’m, I bumped you for him. I said, how come? He said, because Ronnie’s funnier than you. So he turned and walked away and I had a glass of coke in my hand. I threw it at his head and I missed his head and it hit the wall and broke into a thousand pieces. And, uh, Chris Albrecht, who became the like head of HBO, eventually, was running the improv At the time, he had not gone out to California and he, he barred me from the club for two weeks. He says, you don’t throw a glass at somebody’s head because they don’t put you on. And then Chris actually ended up being my friend and when he moved to California, became an agent at ICM and told me to come out and he would represent me.
Incredible career. I was gonna say, did he, if you were banned or not, but two weeks you got off lucky. I have to say you have so many amazing stories. Um, everybody check out Mark’s book. Why Not? Lessons on Comedy, Courage and Chutzpah. You have your podcast. We think it’s funny.
Lemme show you something. This. So, I dunno if you can you see this? I can, yes. I can see. I can see that. The photo. Yeah. That’s my mother. That’s my father and that’s me. 12 years old. The night that I decided to do standup comedy,
You saw Dangerfield, right?
That’s right. And this is where it is. This is the nightclub I was at with my parents when I saw Dangerfield. And that’s me 12 years old, just sitting there, staring and about to see Rodney Dangerfield any minute. And making a decision at 12 that I’m going to be a standup comedian.
I love that. And then you do Johnny’s show, you do Dave Letterman, and then you get to know Rodney. And Rodney is in the hospital and unfortunately he’s dying. And then his, his wife calls you and said, Rodney wants to see you.
And we went up and say goodbye, uh, Rodney the day before he died. And it was amazing going from that nightclub at 12 years old to holding Rodney’s hand with only one day to live.
Amazing life. Mark Schiff, thank you so much for doing this. I’m, I’m grateful that we, we got to do this. This was fun. Amazing stories. Check out the book, check out the podcast, and yeah, it’s been a long time, so yeah, it was good catching up.
IWe think it’s funny with Danny Lobell and uh, hopefully we’re gonna have you on.
Oh, I, I, I haven’t been to LA in a while, but when I, when I’m there, that would be fun. Thanks for the, the kind invite. I’ll be there. I’m, I’m, I’m not gonna pull the Leno. I, maybe I’ll do it. I’ll, I’ll beat Leno. I’ll go two days beforehand and then I’ll go the day before and Yeah. Do a, do Jay. In terms of professionalism,
Anything. It’s open to you buddy. Thank you for everything. You know, you’ve really, um, completed the, in many ways, the, uh, tonight Show Johnny Carson legacy. It needed to be done and you did it.
Oh, thank you. It was so fun. Um, getting together with you. I can’t believe that is almost 10 years ago. Something like that. That, that I went over.
How do I look?
And we got to do that. You look great
And so do you. I wish I looked at you. Thank you.
Thank you, sir.
