Fred Wolf is a comedian, writer, and film director who got his start working in late night faxing jokes into Johnny Carson’s Tonight Show in the late 1980s. Over the next several years, he took jobs writing for a series of failed late-night shows (FOX’s The Late Show, The Pat Sajak Show, and The Chevy Chase Show) before landing his dream gig as a staff writer on Saturday Night Live.
While at SNL from 1993-1996 , he was responsible for some of the show’s greatest hits of that era. (Don’t take our word for it—Rolling Stone listed five of his sketches among their top 50 SNL sketches of all time.) He served as a head writer for the show’s 1995-1996 season, and was offered a featured performer role the following season, which he walked away from to focus on film work, where he’s continued to work with SNL alumni on projects like Tommy Boy, Dirty Work, Joe Dirt, and Grown Ups.
In this episode of Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff, Fred Wolf describes his journey to SNL, and the highs and lows of his earliest days there, including the classic sketch he wrote on spec for the show before he was even hired.
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Show Transcript
Mark Malkoff: Fred Wolf, thanks for talking with us.
Fred Wolf: Uh, this is so fun. This is great. And Mark, thanks for being so patient with, uh,
Oh, this is amazing. We had talked on the phone the other day. I mean, you wrote so many of my favorite, um, Saturday Light Live sketches. And then today I was just kind of going back to your early days of standup. Now you grew up in New York city, correct?
I grew up in New York City. Yes. I grew up there and then moved to Pittsburgh, single mother, four boys, and we were kind of on the move all the time. So there was a lot of, a lot of packing suitcases at midnight, getting on a bus and getting off a bus and blah, blah, blah.
How old are you when you’re going to see Marx Brothers movies? You’re getting on a bus to go into Pittsburgh. Are you going by yourself? And how old are you?
What a cool question, because, um, this is when my parents were still together. I was in first grade in New Jersey. And I remember I watched an Abbott and Costello movie called Hit the Ice. First grade, I didn’t know much of anything. I still don’t know computers, obviously. But I saw this movie, and it was these two guys, Abbott and Costello, And they were trying to get into some ski chalet or something like that. And Costello went around to the back, went into the ski chalet, opened the door, then came back out around and said to, to, uh, Abbott, he goes, “It’s good. We can go in now. He’d opened the door.” And I remember so clearly that I go, that is so funny. He could have opened the door inside. He was inside the ski chalet. He could have just opened the door and said, hi, but he came out around. And from that second on, I just was obsessed with comedy. And I wanted to do some sort of Abbott Costello, like a team comedy thing from first grade on, obsessed with doing it. And then I will say, I was lucky enough to do Tommy Boy and Black Sheep, which was sort of a comedy team.
You’ve done so many movies. So you’re going to see Mark’s brother movies. And then you’re on a family vacation. Are you in Seattle maybe? And then your mom is just reading the paper and say there’s an opening for a job in Montana. Is that how you get to Montana?
Wow. That’s what a good question. Man, that’s so great because that is how it happened. Actually. They, uh, they went on vacation. My parents, they got back together for about a year and then they were on vacation. I saw an opening for a one room schoolhouse in a town called Saltese, Montana. 100 people. And my mother applied for the job that day, got the job. And then we eventually moved out there to Saltese and built a log cabin in the middle of nowhere. Uh, me and my four brothers and my, and, uh, yeah, I was like 18, 19 years old and actually I’m going to tell you this. I was 18, 19, I grew up in New York city, so I didn’t know, I didn’t know how to change a tire on a car, we didn’t own a car in New York city and I didn’t, I was logger, I was working on the oil rigs. I drove a tow truck, all in Montana and the entire time I was there, I said, I’m saving up to go to Hollywood to do more of this comedy thing. And I, uh, went to the oil rigs in North Dakota, broke this finger right here. And in 45 minutes broke my thumb and they gave me workman’s compensation, which I had never heard of before. I don’t have to work and I get money and I go, what? And I can go anywhere I want. And I go, yes. So I moved to Hollywood. And from then on, just lived there in Hollywood and used that to oil rig money for like the first 10 weeks, got a job at a tshirt shop and then started doing comedy. And I just, Wanted to keep, I wanted to do the comedy team thing. I wanted to write those movies. Comedy teams are marketable, something like that. It’s just, that’s all I wanted.
Do you think you would have stayed at the, um, University of Montana if your professor was nicer to you and didn’t condescend? Because, you know, that was the thing. You’re working at a radio station. You’re the only one, um, of the class that’s actually, you’re in Livingston working at an actual radio station. It’s a big deal. And then you have this professor that is just super condescending. And that was pretty much the catalyst where you’re like, I’m out of here. Right?
Mark, you’re amazing. You’re amazing that you researched this stuff, that you know, this stuff, that you that’s the best, you’re the best for real.
Right back at you!
You should tell your viewers that I couldn’t get off the phone with you. I just love talking to you. That’s the story that no one, few people know, which is, um, yeah, I went to three colleges. I went to Penn State. My father stole my Pennsylvania Higher Education Assistance Agency money. $2,000. Stole it because we have the same name. I had it dropped out. Went to MSU and U of M. I got a job at a radio station as a DJ just because I wanted to be in show business. And I was the only one in the whole radio and TV program that did that. But then, uh, they wanted a final project for one of the radio and TV classes, MSU or U of M. I always forget which one because I worked the station the whole time. I charted in. And this professor said, look at the clock. And I go, yeah, what does it say? I go, 12 o’clock, 12 noon. When this was due, he goes, no, it’s two minutes after 12 o’clock. So I’m going to dock you two letter grades for turning in this project late. You’re at a C, no matter what. Because when you work at a professional radio station, that’s how it works. You gotta be on time. And I go, well, I am working at a professional radio station. And he goes, well, you have a C in the class. So that… I dropped out later that day. I said, oh, man, I gotta go do it for real. Because this guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Years later, uh, I was at Saturday Night Live and the host was, um, who was the host?
Bill Pullman.
Bill Pullman. And man, you’re amazing. Uh, Bill Pullman was the host and I was just talking to him. I had some sketch on, we were just talking. He’s such a nice guy. And then I say, yeah, what’d you do? You know, we’re just killing time. And he goes, blah blah. Used to be a professor. And then I go, where are you, professor? And he said, either MSU or U of M, one of those two. I forget which one it was. ’cause I went to both. And I go, I did too. I went there too. And then he said, I was there these two years, he named the years that I was there and I go, I was there and then he goes, I was such an a**hole. I was so angry. I was angry at the world because I wanted to be an actor and I was there teaching instead of doing it. So I left and I went and did it. And here I am at Saturday Night Live. I go, that’s what I told the story about what I just said. He goes, that was me. That would have been me. I did that all the time. I did that stuff all the time. It was probably him that docked me the two letter grades that gave you a C that made you drop out.
It worked out.
Yeah.
It worked out for both of you. So, so you get out to LA and you, your dream is to do, you know, stand up. You also have in your head, you want to be a radio DJ. You don’t know any better. Instead of, um, you know, doing open mics, you actually audition. You just go without really any stand up experience. You go to the comedy store to audition to be a regular. Is that your first time on stage?
Yeah, uh, first time was at The Comedy Store. I didn’t know any better. So I said, uh, Mitzi Shore was the owner and I showcased for her. And, uh, I did pretty well. I thought I did pretty good, but when it came off stage, the, one of her people came up to me and said, she doesn’t want you as a comic, but she said, you should be a writer for Michael Keaton and, uh, Michael Keaton, this is. Before he was huge, he hadn’t done, uh, you know, uh, the Ron Howard movie yet, and I wanted to write for him. He’s hilarious. He’s a great stand up comedian. So that was my, you know, that was nice that she said that, and then I worked the door. She gave me a job at the door. I worked there for three nights. She asked me to cut my hair. It was longer than this, even. And I said, Oh, really? Do I have to cut my hair? And she goes, yeah. And I go, Oh, I can’t. And so I was fired.
So you were a door guy. I had no idea. I mean, that’s like pretty legendary. The door people that have been there. You’re doing stand up. You’re all over the place. And then you got a writing break. And this was in March of 1988. When your friend Jeff Joseph was one of the hosts over at The Late Show with Fox because Joan Rivers Had been pushed out and they had substitute hosts. And then this was for about a month or so, a little bit more than a month. They would alternate between your friend, Jeff Joseph and John Mulrooney. And this is hard to believe, but they only would hire one writer and you were. The one
That’s so funny. First of all, it was a great call from Jeff Joseph. I was blown away that he called because yeah, he got one writer. So yes, for me and John Mulrooney, uh, he, Hal Spear was his writer. I remember and yeah, it alternated. For whatever reason they did this alternate. I don’t know if they were giving them both like screen tests or so to speak or something, but then they, they kind of let both of them go and they hired full time, um, Ross Shafer. And they rehired me to write for Ross Shafer’s Late Show. Ross was such a great guy and he had a great, great crew, great writers, but I wanted to, uh, write on Saturday Night Live. I really wanted to, uh, go off and do that. So I left that show and then, uh, Yeah, it took me a while to get on Saturday Night Live and, uh, wished I hadn’t left that show. Can I tell you a really quick story about The Comedy Store?
Yeah. I’d love that. That would be great. Let’s do it.
I wanted to do stand up. I wanted to be around comedians and I wanted to, you know, write comedy and try it out on stage and stuff, but I really wanted to be more of a writer. And so I would go on stage and try out new stuff. And that was what was really fun for me than doing a full tilt act. I, you know, it was, I wasn’t, so I wasn’t that great. I wasn’t a fantastic performer, but I love writing it. And, um, it led to so many things. It led to meeting Jeff Joseph. And it was really nice that he was able to sort of see what I wrote and say, Oh, I think, I think I can, on the show, he might help. And he was such a good guy, but he was my first real break. Really. And we weren’t best friends, we were friends through stand up comedy, comedy got me everything I’ve gotten stand up comedy did. Every little, like literally every show I’ve gotten on. Everything was all about stand up comedy. And so just the real quick story is that I try to get along with people and I think I kind of have a pretty good idea of who’s going to do well in comedy. And um, I went to Montana with my daughter during COVID just to hang out with her while she could go to high school there because it was actually open there. And I went by the local comedy club that’s in Missoula, Montana. I look crazy, I get it. The hair and the way I dress or whatever. I know.
It’s California. Come on.
Right. Okay. Yeah. So I was up in Montana though. So they go go home to California. I used to write that in the, on the car. They didn’t know I had a long connection with Montana. Go back to California. Seriously, because I had place on the cars. So, um, so I go to this club, this was a couple years ago, and I say, Hey, is there like an open mic or something? I just wanna do some comedy. And my nephew was on a bus on the way down. He wanted to come see the, if I was gonna go on stage. And those, the comedians were so rude to me. They were going, no, no, no, no, no. This is for professional comedians. Why don’t you beat it? Saying words like beat it and then I go into the club itself and I go, is there someone here that books the club? Because I didn’t want to say, oh, I’ve been doing comedy for 20 years or and the people there said, why don’t you leave? This is not an open mic night. You don’t just wander in off the street and do comedy here and I couldn’t bring myself to say no I’ve been doing it for many many years. I’ve been on Saturday Night Live. I’ve been a performer. I couldn’t bring myself to say that And they kept blowing me off. And so I called my nephew and say, Hey, let’s, let’s just ditch this place. And he goes, I’m almost there. I’m on the bus. I can hold you down for God’s sake. So he comes in and we’re sitting there and we’re just going to watch the show. And this lady comes walking up to me and says, I heard you’re a comedian, right? And you do comedy. And I go, yeah, for a while. I was thinking about going on tonight. Why? And she goes. We had three acts cancel. And I go, Oh, and she goes, can you do 15 minutes? And I go, Oh yeah, yeah, I can easy. And she goes, what’s your name? I said, my name Fred Wolf. And she looked it up and three minutes later, she’s back to the table going, Oh my God. Oh my God. I went on stage and this was in front of five people that had blown me off so hard. I’d never blown off so bad. I went on stage and I pulled out every, I every, every, I don’t know what I could say here, but…
You can say whatever you want.
Okay. Every f*cking bit I had that just connected and I had just gone to a dentist that day, so I did dentist jokes. You know how good they work when you’re able to tie it in. Look, I’m like, dudes. And I blew the, the f*cking roof off and the, uh, the lady who booked the show, she went on stage. And as I’m going off stage to the audience, getting a standing ovation and audience members are hugging me. I mean, I killed. She goes, Fred, Fred, wait, don’t leave, don’t, Ralph, stand up, Ralphie, stand up, stand up. And a guy stood up in the audience that was dressed as Joe Dirt. He didn’t know I was there. I had written Joe Dirt with David Spade. Of course. And he’s dressed as Joe Dirt. And she’s going, he walks around like that. Joe Dirt, we’re fans of yours. Like it was an annihilation of annihilations. And one of the comedians, it was so rude to me, came out and hugged me. And in my ear said, I am so sorry. I’m so sorry. So I said, Hey, all you comedians, let’s go outside, let’s go outside and talk. And so we went outside and I go, first of all, thank you for saying, yeah, I killed. You’re right. You guys didn’t do that great to tell you the truth. Okay. It was easy to follow you. I just want to tell you, if you’re in LA acting the way you acted to me, you’re not going to make it in this business because you were rude to me. And if I had just been starting out comedy, I would have quit. I would have been, you heard my feelings, the stuff you were saying to me, and I would have quit. I never would have done it. And you can’t, you can’t be that way. And they all were really nice people. They all said, okay, we get it. We get it. And to me, that was a giant lesson that if they don’t learn that they’re just screwed because you could be funny, but you also got to be nice and you got to just get along with people. And I got so upset that they were so rude and I didn’t understand it. And I’m so lucky that I had another way to go the writing and so forth because I guess I just, I don’t present. Well, let’s put it that way.
I love that story that you were so humble that you didn’t even say anything. And then you did help them. I mean, it is one of those things I will say, um, maybe 20 years ago, 30 years ago, people, you know, definitely in comedy clubs, there was known for certain people, I’m not going to say who, that were not maybe the friendliest, but if you want to work in the business and stuff, it’s just not the way to go. I mean, first of all, you had the talent, but you, you kept the relationships and you’re a nice guy, but it’s one of those things where it’s like, You were the one that helped try to get David Spade and Rob Schneider on, on that short lived show where you were a head writer before SNL and, you know, and then Schneider’s like, Fred Wolf, why don’t we give him a, let me see what I can do to get him, um, a tryout. So, I mean, it’s really just, you know, it’s a cycle.
It really is. Yeah. And, uh, I met all those guys when they were like, you know, smaller performers. I was a small, you know, we weren’t getting any kind of TV stuff. I’ve talked about this in the past. So. I had five friends who I knew and told them that they were all going to be huge stars when we were just starting out and, uh, is that a list is pretty accurate, you know? And, um, so when I was working at that show, you were mentioning it was called Too Hip for TV and, uh, NBC, Brandon Tartikoff came into my office. He said, I heard you’re a standup comedian. We need a host for the show. Uh, do you know standup comedians that might be good hosts? And so I wrote out five names of who they should see. But I went over the list thinking, okay, are these people nice? Are they, can they get along with their peers? And then I have to say, I gave them the list of the five names. They hired one of them to become the host, Colin Quinn, one of the five names. And the other four names were unknown at the time, but it was David Spade, Rob Schneider, Adam Sandler, and George Clooney. And they all went on to do really well. You probably heard of some of them, right?
That’s incredible. I mean, the fact that you knew that right away before anybody.
I’m not joking. I knew how much better than me they were.
How did you know Clooney at the time? I mean, I know he was doing sitcom work and he was, um, you know, really funny. I’ve talked to people that worked with him, a prankster and just, you know, charming for sure.
Yeah, very charming. Uh, he idolized me.
Of course.
No, we all, we played basketball every day. There was a comedian’s game and, uh, we played during the eighties outdoor court and, uh, He’s a great player. I’m a little bit better.
You do have, you have some height on him. So how do you get to the Pat Sajak show in 1989? And I know that you, I don’t think people know this or not, but you were doing kind of like the Brian McCann, Brian, um, uh, Brian Stack characters. I mean, you were doing the bitter Robin, you’re doing the one joke comedian. How did that all come together when you were over at Sajak?
I love your questions, Mark. I really love your questions. Um, I applied at the past data show and it felt like a real show with CBS and it was going to go against, you know, Johnny Carson and that whole thing. And I, um, really wanted that job, but they didn’t hire me. They hired eight writers. I think it was, and they didn’t hire me. And so I said, well, that’s the way it goes, I guess. But then all of a sudden I got a call. And one of the eight people that they were going to hire didn’t want that salary. I couldn’t care less what the salary was. I’d do it for a minimum wage, but. Uh, nothing against him. He’s doing fine now. I’ll tell you who he was, but he’s doing great. Still working. But I went in there about four days after, after they had started doing pre production to do the Pat Sajak show. So when they called and said, Hey, you have the show if you want it. I go, okay, can I come down right now? And, sign the paperwork or whatever. And I go, well, it’s seven o’clock at night, just come in tomorrow. And I go, oh yeah, I can come in tomorrow, but maybe I’ll come down tonight, you know, to sign it, you know, kind of that and the guy, the business affairs guy says, uh, all right, I’ll wait here for you. And I go, okay, great. Cause I wanted to get that signature on that thing. So I went out to my car and I had to push start everywhere I went, you know. So this car, I push started and I drove it down to CBS, went up to his office, I signed the paperwork and I actually said to him, by the way, I said, when I come and work as a writer, you know, a professional writer, I’ll dress better than I am right now. Don’t worry. And he was like, I don’t know what. So anyway, I signed the stuff and then I leave his office. And all the lights of CBS are dark, except for his, his office lights still on. I go down to the parking lot and my car won’t start. And here I’m trying to play big man. I’m going to dress well when it wouldn’t start. And I’m running in the parking lot of CBS on down, uh, Fairfax and, uh, whatever it is, you know, down in Melrose and third, and I’m running and jumping in the car to try to jumpstart it. Because it won’t start. And finally the light in his office goes out and I go, Oh, he’s coming down right now. Damn it. I walked away, left my car there and just walk home because I didn’t want him to see me push like white trash. So the I go in the next day and start working and they say, what’s our first bit going to be? And I said something like, well, what about Sajak drives up in a limousine? And, uh, it’s not a, it’s like a really limousine. And they go, yeah, sounds good. Where do we get the limousine? And I go, I know where there’s a car. So we ended up using my car, the one in the parking lot, because we use it as a limousine. It’s the first bit of the whole show, my raggedy ass car. That’s the story.
What was your experience? Like I interviewed him once in person. He was really, really nice. But what was your experience on the Sajak show and then doing on camera playing some characters?
That guy’s so nice. So dang nice. The head writer was Greg Fields. And he’s passed.
Former Johnny Carson writer.
He was, yes, he, yes. And, uh, Kevin Mulholland also was a former Johnny Carson writer on the show, Sajak show, which I, yeah, you’re the Carson man. So, you know what it’s like, that guy was amazing. So anyway, somehow or the other, he’s, he saw me doing standup or whatever. He said, yeah, you should do a little bits on the show here. So I ended up doing like about a hundred bits. And, uh, Robin was one of my favorites. It was Robin that was really angry that he wasn’t in the Batman movies. And, uh, so it was Bitter Robin. Yeah. And, uh, I did the one joke comedian on there. Yeah. Something like that. And it was really fun. And Sajak was great.
They got some amazing guests. I mean, you have Jack Parr, I remember. Mickey Mantle. Um, a lot of icons, would you go back, did you work with any of them, or could you go back and say hi to any of them, or was that frowned upon?
Yes, I would always pick out the one I had to see, like, Mickey Mantle, I have his autograph, 3 autographs of his. He played for the Yankees where I grew up. Yeah, blah, blah, blah. And so there’s. I’d have to ask him ahead of time. Yes, you can go back there. And I did meet Jack Parr and it’s funny, the two names you mentioned. And, uh, there’s a couple others where I just had to go back and meet him, shake their hands and just say, hi. And some of them would talk and, uh, and I’d leave him alone by and large, but yeah, we couldn’t just wander up and start talking to the guests, but I wanted to.
Did you freelance a joke or two for Johnny Carson’s Tonight Show or more?
Um, I sent jokes in and they used some of them, but then also when Joan Rivers hosted she would buy, uh, 10 dollars. She’d buy the jokes and she bought five jokes from me, I think. But you paid 10 and Phyllis Diller paid 3 per joke. And so one time I sent it to both thinking one will buy it. And they both bought the joke.
What do you do?
I didn’t know what to do. I had no idea. I didn’t tell either one. I didn’t know what to do. I, because it was 13 bucks and I needed the money, but, um, I got checked for 10 and checked for three, put the check for three on my wall in my apartment and about two months later had to cash it and I needed the cash. Not joking.
It’s amazing. You’re writing for all these icons. Now in the 80s, when you had a day job, Kenan Ivory Wayans was doing standup. He went on Carson. I’m trying to remember if it was 84 or something like that. It was a huge deal when he went on Carson and he did well. Now you encountered him and you, but was it both of you were like, you look familiar, but I can’t place it.
It was, uh, so unbelievable to me when I went to IS 70 in New York City, it was my junior high and I was friends with, uh, best friends with, uh, a guy named Ronald Fort and Ronald was, um, divine, uh, just amazing, just incredible, just an amazing, amazing guy. And so my mother had to move in the dead of night. We had to get out of New York City and I never saw any of my friends in New York city again, really, by and large. So when I went to Hollywood, uh, I worked at a t-shirt shop and I was going out with this girl and, uh, this tall, very good looking guy came in to ask her out. He was very good looking. I was really worried. And she said to him, I, it was Keenan Wayans, you know, but he, but he wasn’t doing any, he had just moved to LA. And my girlfriend at the time said, no, I have a boyfriend. And he goes, who’s your boyfriend? She pointed to me ‘cause I was working there too. And he looks over at me, he goes, that’s your boyfriend? Yeah. Okay. I could probably steal you away from that thing. No, but he just said, you look familiar to me. I said, yeah, I was thinking the same thing. You do too. Where do you live? And he said Sycamore. And I go, I do too. I lived in Sycamore, you know, 1754. So we thought. But no, that’s not it though. We both said, and I go, what are you doing out here? And I go, I’m trying to do stand-up comedy or whatever. And he goes, so am I, I just moved here from New York city. And I go, but I haven’t seen any stand-ups. I don’t know. And then he said, well, you said from New York city, where’d you go to high school? And, uh, I said, no, it wasn’t there. He goes, where’d you go to junior high? And I go. I went to I 70, he goes, I did too. Oh my God. You’re Fred Wolf. You were friends with Ronald Fort. How are you friends with Ronald Fort? He wanted to be friends with Ron Fort. Ronald was the coolest, toughest kid in the entire junior high, and none of them could ever hang out with him. And somehow Ronald hung out with me. I have no idea why. And it was because of him. I was like, king of the school. I could walk down the hallway and people almost like parted when I walked down there because he was a fighter And I was a loser. I was the guy who got punched. He would be the guy who could punch people. And, uh, Keenan Wayans all those years later saying, how were you friends with Ronald Ford? Somehow I’ve been friends with some of the most amazing people. I don’t know what happens or what it is. But I swear to you, there’s a story to every one of them. Like I told you, those five names, they were my friends that went on to be big. And we still talk to this day. I don’t, I got so lucky. I don’t know.
You have the talent though, to back it up. I mean, you need the talent. You, you had it, but doing all these gigs, I know that SNL was in your head, but for example, when you’re doing evening at the improv and Dr. Joyce Brothers is the host and you’re, you’re just like, okay, this is where I am right now. Um, first of all, how was Dr. Joyce Brothers as a, as an emcee? And when you’re doing things like that, does it seem like nothing, like I’m just kind of like stuck here or in your head was like, you still have grandiose dreams of SNL.
I think I’m grandiose. Yeah. Cause I, um, the oil rigs was a really tough job. I was never unhappy doing any of those shows. I just knew I wasn’t that good. I wasn’t going to go really far.
You were getting on TV all the time. You had Fred Travalena. You were doing the Comic Strip Live, Caroline’s comedy. So obviously you were doing well enough with the bookers. I mean, maybe you’re being modest, but that they were putting you on.
Thank you for saying that. That’s really nice. I, um, when I met my wife, uh, at the, you know, my girlfriend first, I kind of felt like, Oh, I can kind of stop performing now. I’ve landed something that’s amazing here and I kind of segued out of it. But. When I got to Saturday Night Live, I was really happy to be there, and Lorne actually offered to make me a feature player, it’s called, where you can go on camera and do some stuff, and I loved doing it, but I started turning down performing, but I don’t know, I just never felt like I was that good. Not good looking, not, I talk too fast, I, I don’t know, I live in my head, I don’t know how to do this computer stuff, but I can write a joke, I think, and, uh, I love doing that, but, uh, that’s nice of you to say that, I, I did do a lot, I actually have been on TV a fair amount, Evening at the Improv, all that kind of stuff, but my heart’s in, uh, writing, uh, it really is.
One of my friends, Dan Pasternack, told me that his favorite routine of yours is the long shaggy dog story, The Acne. Uh, I don’t know if you remember that routine.
I do, yeah.
He asked if you would do it, but I don’t know if you do requests.
Of course, of course I do. No, it’s so nice, of course. And Dan’s a very nice guy, by the way. It was about, it was a true thing. Just when I was younger, I had acne, a lot of kids do, I had it on my face and I was talking about how I would get up in the morning before school in New York City and I would check and see how I looked and I’d see acne and one day I checked and I’m just like I hated myself and I hated the world and I didn’t want to be seen by anybody and I’m walking down the street literally feeling so sorry for myself because I had acne, you know. And, um, suddenly I see this guy being pushed towards me. He’s in a wheelchair and he’s missing his arms and his legs. And, uh, you know, I’m just, I’m just saying to myself, like, I, I can’t handle this. I, I’m worried about acne, but this guy’s in a wheelchair for the rest of his life. And, um, just then he passes me and I hear him say to the guy pushing him, did you see that kid’s face? And so, um, that’s the joke.
He feels sorry for you.
Yeah. But I, uh, I stopped telling it. Because I didn’t want anybody to feel bad about it. But then one time I was selling it and a guy came up to me in a wheelchair after I told that joke that at a Comedy Club in San Jose. And he came up to me in a wheelchair and he had a voice box. And I thought, Oh no, Oh my God, I heard his feelings. And then he said, did you see that kid’s face? He loves the joke and laughed. And I said, okay, it’s a fine joke to tell. It was a true one. Yeah.
It sounds like an Anthony Jeselnik type of joke now. I don’t, he’s um, he does a little bit of dark stuff. But, um, yeah, so you meet Rob Schneider in the 80s in Sacramento at Laughs Unlimited. So you stay in touch with these people, you see them around. And then in ‘92, um, Rob Schneider, by the way, he does not get enough credit, and the public does not know how good of a sketch writer he was at Saturday Night Live. The Ivy League people will say this, I mean, the top people, he would write sketches like Ed Glosser, Trivial Psychic, for Christopher Walken, and just wonderful pieces that he was not in, like Massive Head Wound Harry, that was his idea. So you have Rob Schneider. And he is the one that comes to you and says, Why don’t you do, um, write some sketches? You’ve never done sketch, sketches before. You’ve never written them, like this at least. So this is actually your, like, I think it’s December. It’s like over Christmas, 1991. You’re, you know, you’re trying to put this packet together. What, what did you come up with? Was it like three sketches? Was it six sketches? What stands out and what were your thoughts during all of this?
Oh, thanks for asking. I, yeah, I had never written a sketch before. I didn’t quite know what the situation was. 10 pages and I didn’t know. So when Rob called and said, Hey, you know, I’m here. I’d put a sketch in to Jim Downey, the head writer. And, um, I watched the show. Like I, I just, I just remember watching it. And I said to my girlfriend, she’s my wife now, I said, like, one of the, they’re doing something different here. It’s just different. There’s something about it different. And there is, there’s something great about it. But I didn’t quite know how to put it together because I was used to doing jokes or whatever. And so I wrote a sketch. First one I ever wrote. It was called Mr. Belvedere’s fan club. Fan of Mr. Belvedere’s fan club.
The guy who plays him, it’s one of my favorite sketches.
That’s right. That’s what the guy. Uh, man, that’s amazing. That’s great. And I sent it in to Rob, Rob read it and he liked it. Uh, he said he liked a lot and he was gonna give it to Jim Downey and they gave it to Jim Downey and then Jim Downey liked it and they brought me out to be a guest writer off that one sketch and I was absolutely blown away. The first host when I was out there that was, uh, Jerry Seinfeld and I gave it to him to read. I knew him from stand up. I gave it to him to read and he read it and goes, uh, nah, I wouldn’t read this. I mean, I wouldn’t do this. I’ll read it at the table if you want, but it’s not my sense of humor. It’s a little dark. And I go, oh, geez. So I took it back and all that. So that was it for the first week. The second week was Tom Hanks. And so, Can I tell the story or, or about?
Oh, I absolutely love this. No, it’s one of my favorite sketches and I know at dress rehearsal. It only played so, so, uh, and it killed. Um, when I was, well, I mean, I VHS, we, I taped it. We would, I’d watch it over and over again. My friends at high school at Hershey high school, we’d quote it, but please tell us the story.
Um, by the way, Hershey high school, not Hershey PA, right? Hershey. That is now I’ve, I’ve graduated from Hershey high school, worked at Hershey Park, overpriced t shirts. Upper Rhineland. With the Hershey Kisses as the street lamps, right? Oh yes, it smells like chocolate when it’s windy or rainy, yeah. I did the plant tour by myself, I was driving out. to the
Chocolate World, yes.
Yeah, dang. Dang, that’s so cool, because you grew up in New York City though, right? Didn’t you, or…
I got here when I was 18. I’ve been here longer than I’ve been any other place, but I was in Hershey, I want to say sixth grade until I graduated. It’s yeah, it was there for like six years or so.
I see. I see. Lived in five places in Pennsylvania, but um, we kept moving. So anyway, I gave it, so Tom Hanks was the host for the second week and then read the table and it did great, I gotta say, and it got on and the musical guest was my favorite musical of all time. I had three posters on the wall, uh, Bruce Springsteen and there they are doing my sketch on the flat that they did it on Stage Four, and he’s warming up to do his first song as they’re doing my sketch, Mr. Belvedere on air. And I’m watching Bruce Springsteen in the dark cause they kept the lights down so it wouldn’t distract. And he was doubled over laughing. I couldn’t, I mean, it was, it was one of the biggest highlights of my life, other than my two daughters being born. The highlight of my life is I have those guys doing my sketch and Bruce Springsteen’s laughing. And after the sketch played on air, you’re right, it did fairly well on air is, uh, I had Springsteen come up to me and Tom Hanks, all these people come to me. That was good. That was good. It was good sketch, good sketch. And then I didn’t get asked back. So the whole next year I had assumed everyone told me, Oh, you got the job here. Cause I knew most of the guys who stand up that were cast members at this point or working up to cast. And everyone’s like, you got the job, you got the job. And so that summer, I figured I had a job, but I didn’t have one. They didn’t ask me back in the fall. And so I went a year without working anywhere. I applied everywhere I could. I was broke. My girlfriend said, move in with me and, uh, you can pay the rent, blah, blah, blah. And so I just kept applying and applying and getting turned down and not knowing why I didn’t get brought back there, but I kept sending stuff out and I knew, you know, Spade, I would help them write some of this stuff for, um, when he would go on Update and, uh, Rob and Adam Sandler, all those guys, but I. Wanted a job there. I thought that’d be kind of cool to have a job there. And then one day, about a year and a quarter passed, and I got three phone calls in five hours and it was, uh, the Conan O’Brien new talk show. Robert Smigel called, your buddy, Robert called to say, uh, why don’t you come right to this new talk show, Conan O’Brien, Chevy Chase himself called me for his talk show to come right there. And I said yes to that, because it’s Chevy, and then Saturday Night Live, Jim Downey called, uh, you know, all within a 5 or 6 hour period. I couldn’t believe it. And I had already said yes to Chevy Chase. So I didn’t take the SNL one. I wanted SNL. That’s what my dream was. So I will say this, eventually Chevy said, go out to Saturday Night Live. This show is not gonna be on forever. So I did. I went to Saturday Night Live. And what’s really kind of cool is. When I first got there, when they called up and said, okay, you’re coming out to be on Saturday Night Live? Yes. The first week I put two sketches into the read through and they ate it so bad–they got no laughs at all. Lorne put the second one at the bottom of the pile. Never wanted to read it.
Wait a minute. This was John Malkovich hosted. So you do the first sketch that you wrote and it just dies. And then they just skip over the second one. They don’t even give you the respect of reading it?
They didn’t even read it. I understand. I mean, I eat it so hard. Plus, both sketches were 20 pages long, which is really long. I didn’t know any better. And the next week I got a sketch on with, um, it actually killed it to table read and I had someone come up to me and say, Oh, man, I’m so glad this sketch did good. Because last week we’re wondering, this is the guy they flew out here to do this job? And that’s how I knew that they’re because it ate it so hard, you get silence is really hard. I’d have to work to get silence on a sketch, you know, at a table read. And then everything worked out after that. But I have to say the whole thing was pretty amazing. The whole thing, because I was flying out for the 40th anniversary show at Saturday Night Live. And someone had a rolling stone magazine on the plane. And they had the top 50 sketches of all time. And my first sketch ever, Mr. Belvedere fan club is number 26 in that Rolling Stone magazine.
It’s amazing. I was looking at the list and then you, you have that and then you have Jimmy Tango’s Fatbusters for Jim Carrey. And then they have the Alec Baldwin belated season greeting from January of 96.
It was amazing. I mean, it’s really amazing that they put those in the Rolling Stone magazine. I was, I mean, yeah, I can, I mean, I started crying, uh, you know, I got to tell you what I saw.
As you should. I wish they would do attribution. I know that, um, you know, it’s not easily accessible information, who writes what, especially for back then. It’s a big deal that you got three of them on.
Thank you. I mean, you, you’re a fan of the show, and you know, stuff. I didn’t know, uh, you told me some great stuff when we were talking and it’s really nice that you knew that I wrote those three, they didn’t put my name on it, but I think I knew I got in there and I’m just so, I love it. I’m so humbled. I’m so happy. The whatever. I’m amazed. That’s all. I’m just amazed. I never told anybody this, but when Tom Hanks’ son came in to audition for House Bunny, one of the movies I directed, the first thing he said to me when I walked into the room, I was going to say, Hey, I know your dad. And he did this sketch called Mr. Belvedere Fan Club. And he goes, um, “Brock Tune,” first thing he said to me.
Yes!
Right out of that sketch. And, uh, I said, I like this guy. And I cast him, too, for sure. Cullen.
The thing with that sketch with Mr. Belvedere fan club, and I talked to one of the people that was in it, and, um, I think I read an interview with you. It did okay at dress, but not good. Great, but they loved it so much. They told you, don’t worry about it. And they moved it up in the orders after Robert’s, um, Smigel sketch, the Sabra Price is Right. Right before, uh, music with Springsteen and update and it killed. It was such a funny, funny sketch.
Oh, thank you so much. One time I was walking past Lorne’s office and I saw Robert Smigel in there and. Robert is the king, the king of all kings, of kings, of kings, of kings, of kings, of writers, of kings, of kings. When I was there, I would sit with him anytime he wanted until 6am. He just worked like a, oh my God, is he good. Holy Lord. I get tongue tied around this dude, but he was in there arguing with Lorne about something. And I thought, what’s he arguing about? He was already going to get my sketch up higher in the rundown. Like, I didn’t know he wasn’t telling me that. He was just doing it because he’s a good man.
That’s really nice that he went to bat with you. Yeah, really nice man. The sketch that you mentioned that you got on the week after Malkovich, that was when Christian Slater hosted. That was the, you’re an idiot one. Is that it?
Yeah. Yeah. He worked at a store. I was walking through Times Square and there was a newspaper headline store. And uh, I said, well, for me, they’d put you’re an idiot on the headline and I go, Hey, that’s kind of a funny sketch. And I had just eaten it the week before. So I said, man, I was scared to put a sketch in that wouldn’t be funny. So I made an eight page or put it in and it actually did really well. And it got on the air and uh, thank God for that because man, I felt terrible. So I thought they’re going to fire me. That sketch ate it the first week. That was John Malkovich, was the host?
Malkovich was the, the first week that you, you came in there. That was the fourth show. And then the thing that I don’t, it doesn’t make any sense, is first of all, Belvedere killed and then also didn’t you at least contribute or write the entire Sharon Stone monologue when she came in to host that?
That, that was a sort of a group effort. But, um, I was in it. I was one of the people asking her questions and stuff. Uh, she was amazing by the way, because, uh, I was such a junior writer. I was so scared. So I kind of glommed onto the host and asked him, you want me to go get you lunch or whatever? And, uh, she was great. So she would ask me stuff. So maybe it seemed like I contributed more than I did, but she would ask me about jokes. And, you know, I thought that was funny and so forth. She was, she was great. Thank you for remembering that. John Malkovich. I couldn’t even believe I was in the same room with that guy.
Yeah, it was a tough show, um, when he hosted, I, um, the audience, I don’t know if it was the audience or not. Yeah, you didn’t get anything on the Christian Slater. And then, I think it, it might’ve been, let me look at my list. I think this was, might’ve been like your fifth show or something. It’s one of my favorite sketches. It was your fifth show with Charlton Heston and Paul Westerberg, where you did, um, and I had no idea Norm contributed to it, which is one of my favorite, which it was the Heston playing the. In the supermarket playing, is it Elwin or Edwin? I haven’t watched in a while. The bag boy, Phil Hartman is the boss. And it’s one of those things where there’s music where it’s, I don’t think it’s online because a lot of the best sketches are just because of the copyright. They’re not, um, on YouTube and Saturday Night Live can’t really do much with them, but, uh, that’s another sketch I would just watch over. Can you talk about that sketch, the writing process of the sketch? And, um, just Heston and just, I mean, that was just, oh gosh, the laughs on that thing. I love the build. Same with Belvedere. It just starts normal. And then you’re just like, where is, who is this person? And it just gets, it goes to a place where you’re just like, I, I don’t know. It’s just so funny and so smart and clever.
I like this podcast.
You and my mom, all right!
Yeah. No. Yeah. No, I like it more than your mom does. But anyway, so that’s not like a mom joke. I’m not doing a mom joke.
It’s all good. I got it.
Charlton Heston, on Monday night, there’s a meeting in Lauren’s office where the host for that week will go in there and you have all the writers and all the cast in the, in the office there. And, uh, you’d tell people, yeah, I’m going to work on this. I’m going to work on this. And Charlton Heston was telling a story. And, uh, you know, he’s a legend at that time, of course. And, uh, he was talking about Treasure of the Sierra Madre. And I was still, I was like a junior writer. I was trying not to get in anyone’s way. I sit way in the back of the room. There’s about a hundred people around, wherever it was. And he goes, there’s an actor in Treasure of the Sierra Madre. Uh, oh, famously at a line, uh, uh, badges. We don’t need no stinking badges. I forget the actor’s name. And from the back of the room, I went, um, uh, Alfonso Bedoya. And he goes, yeah, that’s right. And I remember thinking, what? Give me some props. I just said Alfonso Bedoya. No one else said that answer. But he was a giant star and all that stuff. And so I, once again, I was kind of put in my place. So we were writing, uh, I had an idea, bag boy. It was called, and Norm Macdonald and I, uh, we shared an office and we were working on, we were trying to figure out what it was, what it was. What is the sketch? What does it go? Where does it go? It’s where you knew it was gonna be dark. Cause Norm was, I, I love it with Norm. And then all of a sudden, Norm just said one line at 3 a. m. He said one line, “I hear tell there’s these things called duck billed platypuses.” And as soon as he said that, I go, oh sh*t, that’s it. And we just started writing it in 15 minutes. We had it written out because that was the missing piece has made it all gel. And man, that thing killed the table. I got to tell you, it blew the roof off at the table.
Heston played it completely straight. And it starts with one of those things where he’s just this incompetent, he’s an older, you don’t see people that are usually that old that are working in the supermarkets that are kind of like helping out as much. And the first beat, I think it’s, is it Melanie Hutsell comes in with her son and he’s like, he takes the cereal and throws it on the floor to get the prize. And it’s like, don’t worry about it. And you’re like, Oh, okay. And then it just starts getting… And Phil Hartman keeps coming in as the boss and he’s like, are you crazy? Because he’s just like one thing after another, just completely like the price check on lettuce, 16 bucks. Are you crazy? Lettuce is 16 bucks. And then it’s like, and then, and then you just reveal with Heston talking to Hartman that, um, he. Not only is threatening to hurt him, but he has it all planned out. He’s like, he doesn’t say I’m going to use the pliers on you. He said not only that, but, um, he has a whole plan. He’s talking about like, I’m not going to get pliers. I’m going to use the pliers on you. We’re going to get that remote tool shed echo in. And he has, so you, you, you kind of see that. And he has a smile on his face the whole time. He’s like the gentlest. gentlest guy and it just gets, Oh man. And then Sandler and Spade come in as the teenagers and start making mocking him. And then they, he puts them in their place. Um, but, but really, you know, is this still very gentle guy and they just put their heads down and walk off. And it was like the funniest sketch.
Man, that’s so nice to hear. And I was laughing, I want, you know, I was probably laughing at Norm’s lines that he contributed. I don’t laugh at stuff like that, but that was good. You, you’re right. The recall you have on that is great. And that’s how he played it. He played it really straight, really good. That’s amazing. Thank you very much.
The end was really funny too because it was like a price check on ham and it was like two for a nickel or something like that. It was, but again, it was one of those things where the beats were at Heston. I, it’s hard. I don’t know how many hosts could have really pulled that up, but he sold it and Phil Hartman. I mean, come on. I mean, the gold standard. I mean, he was, is the boss and such a funny sketch. Did you write with Norm that year before he got Update? Did you write a bunch of stuff? Right with him. Like, cause I know he did, for example, like he did, he would do these solo pieces like Jack Kavorkian. He did. I think that’s when Sally Field host and he would did like Charles Carroll, he would do these solo Andy Rooney. Did you write with him on any of those?
Yeah. Yeah. So like I said, we shared in the office. I believe, I mean, what a crew it was, uh, Norm and I, whatever, it was a connected office. So it was Adam Sandler, David Spade and Chris Rock, and then Norm and myself. Also, uh, you know, Beavis and Butt-Head…
Mike Judge was coming in for, oh yeah, he’s doing some of the shorts. Yeah.
Yeah, what a collection and, but Norm stay up late and we would just sit there and Norm would sit there and Norm never wrote anything down. He, he really never did nothing. Nothing was written on paper, which is unbelievably genius. So I used to look around the cut. Come on, he’s gotta be lying, but nothing was written down. He would come in like around 3 a. m. after doing a gig somewhere and we’d write from three to six and I would throw stuff in there, but then he would sit there and he would make me feel bad about myself because he would be quiet and all of a sudden go, it’s the funniest thing I ever heard and I just write it down and get credit for it now, you know?
When did you first meet with Lorne? Is when you got your sixth show tryout, or is it when you got hired in 93 that you, you met with him and then you did some, you were doing Norm material for people outside, but when did that take place? And then can you tell the story? Was that when you first got the six shows or was that when you were hired permanently that you sat down with Lorne?
After I sent that Mr. Belvedere sketch down, he said he liked it, and I guess to even hire as a guest writer, Lorne has to give it his coronation or whatever. And so, yeah, so I was sitting outside of Lorne’s office on the ninth floor and there’s always a crowd outside his office, people waiting to see him. I was out there for like two hours and I was supposed to see him at three o’clock, see him at five o’clock. I couldn’t care less. I was excited. And there was these two interns talking about having seen Norm Macdonald at a comedy club the night before, and, uh, there were telling each other jokes, but they weren’t telling him the way I could tell him. So I go, Hey, excuse me. You guys talking about Norman Macdonald, the comedian? And they go, yeah. I go, you want me to do his act? So I stood up and I started doing Norm. We were friends, you know, and I knew his act cold and I started doing, and it killed. His act was killing outside of Lorne’s office to the point where Lorne Michaels opened the door of his office to see what’s all the noise. What’s going on? What is. And someone said, he’s doing Norm Macdonald. He’s doing Norm right now. The guy we saw last night, you know, I’m sure Lorne was already gonna hire him. I’m sure, but it didn’t hurt that I was killing doing Norm. I called him right after my meeting and said, you got to call there. I mean, I just killed doing you. And Norm said, what bits did you do? Which one did you do? So, but he was unbelievable. I miss that guy. I was driving a couple of days ago and, uh, got a new phone and I saw that I took a picture in 2020 of him. He was gonna be playing a casino up in Sacramento. I was gonna go see him there. I can’t believe he’s gone. So, but he is.
I was like in some, I don’t know, meeting or something or doing something serious. Yeah, my wife Christine locked on the door. I could just tell she was very quiet and um, you know, I met him a bunch of times. He was very nice. We texted, but I don’t have the friendship like you did, but just the fact his, just his work, um, meant so much to me that like, I just, uh, it was so hard. I can’t even imagine. You were, you were friends with him to get that news.
I counted of myself as lucky that I knew him for as long as I did. And we wrote dirty Work together, Frank Sebastiano and I, and, and nor by the way, Frank wrote for Norm on Update.
Oh, he, some of the most famous jokes, um, were him. Yeah, that’s another, um, interesting how he got hired over there and, um, said, just sent in in jokes and,
And he was like a, a move moving truck driver sending in jokes. But jokes were so funny. I gotta tell you a quick Frank story.
Please.
Uh. I was, um, walking down the hallway and I had just met Frank. He just started working there. I think I was a head writer at this point. I think
You were.
I was. Okay, Mark, I’m gonna, I’m gonna call you for all my biographies for real. Yes. Great. This is great. But, uh, I was walking down the hallway and I just, uh, just mess around. I passed Frank and I, I go, Oh, I’m Frank Sebastiano. I write for Norm. And he goes, I’m Fred Wolf getting choked by Frank. And I laughed so fast and hard, and I, I, Hey, Norm, Norm, come on out. You hired one. He’s a good one. He’s a good one. That was a good joke. Good ad lib.
I had never seen anybody cause I, you know, I’d gone to the show and I’d met a bunch of the writers. It was so shocking to see that, that you could dress like that and have the long hair and the beard and get hired. Dino Stamatopoulos over at Conan too, when I was going early on, I was like, how can I get a job like this? You can just wear jeans and have long hair and get, I just figured people had to dress up a little bit. Um, Both were, um, you know, I mean, kept, I mean, they looked good and stuff, but yeah, definitely when you see Frank, uh, I don’t know if Letterman, well, he did work for Letterman later. I mean, cause he had such an amazing reputation, but I don’t know if Dave would have hired him in the eighties. I’m saying, yeah, but what an amazing, I wanted to ask you about that norm because you know, Norm’s update was so influential and people still talk about it, but were you still there for those first, um, I don’t know when you got there by show number four, was Herb Sargent still there doing Update with Norm because, you know, Herb. Amazing run with, you know, Dennis Miller, original writer, Kevin Nealon, but it definitely seemed when I watched the first couple with when Herb was there, it kind of helped that same type of feel. It didn’t have Norm’s voice. What did you observe? Because I didn’t know if Norm pushed him out or Lorne pushed him out, but with Herb, he was very territorial of that position of Update.What happened?
I actually don’t know the behind the scenes of it. Herb had been there for since 75, I think, right? Since I, yeah. And, uh, uh, Yeah, he would have been more old school and stuff, but Herb was a nice guy, but he didn’t, he didn’t really mix, he didn’t hang out with us or whatever. I know that Norm has a very distinct knowledge about what he wanted to do or what type of writing he wanted, and he wrote a lot of his own stuff. A quick story about Herb is, he was sort of a king around there, and he has such a big name. Um, and one day he was talking to me and he said, this is when I was first there. I told you Bruce Springsteen, I idolize that dude. He asked me, he’s the first guy to be on the cover of Time and Newsweek the same week. I knew it was Bruce Springsteen, but he said it was, uh, oh, I’m blowing the story. Somebody who, and he was totally serious. Somebody who just had like one hit or two hits. Rick Springfield. Rick Springfield.
Oh, okay. Yeah. That seems like somebody that might’ve been a little bit older that would get that confused.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no. So I, yeah. So I said, uh, very true what you just said, but I said, oh no, actually it was, it was Bruce Springsteen kind of famously and he goes, no, no, it was Rick Springfield. And I said, no, no, uh, 1975 famously happened. And he said, you want to bet? And I go, I don’t have any money. And he goes, all right, then bet me 50 bucks. I go, yeah, that’s the money I don’t have. This is my first week there or whatever. And then when I didn’t get asked back. I asked people, was that one of the reasons maybe did Herb say something because he found out I was right, about 15 minutes later, and he walked into the studio where I was, uh, the, excuse me, the, uh, the director’s booth there and he threw the 50 down and kept walking because he lost that bet. It was Bruce Springsteen and, uh, he never, I never talked to him again after that. And so I was wondering if he put a word in against me. I don’t know. I, I. I, no, I shouldn’t say that about Herb Sargent, but.
And then Al Franken too called you that the year after you didn’t get hired as well.
Nice guy.
Because did you ever, why did he call you? Was it something that like, like, it wasn’t like a disagreement or something? He’s just like, I just want to let you know. What was the disagreement? If you’re comfortable.
He’s such a nice guy, Al Franken. When I first got there, uh, I argued with him because, uh, I argued with him over something. Suddenly I go, what am I doing? Why am I arguing with Al Franken? He’s like a legend here. I was kind of staring at the table and I look over at, uh, one of the writers that had been there forever. And I said, did I just look like a psycho. And she went, yeah, kind of, kind of. And so I thought, okay, maybe, and I didn’t look like a giant psycho, but he was wrong about what he was saying, by the way, he was saying it was Rick Springfield on the cover of Time and Newsweek. No, but, uh, I thought that Al Franken really, ’cause he told me to shut up. Finally. He said, just shut up. And I thought maybe he’s why I didn’t get ass back. But, but he called me, uh, during the season. I wasn’t there. Hey Fred, it’s Al. And I just want you to know it wasn’t me. That, that, and we’re wondering why you’re not. We, we think you’re really funny. And that was such a nice thing for him to do. And, uh, we, we’d become friends. And
I do wanna point out that at the same time you were getting your tryout, Ian Maxtone-Graham was getting a tryout. You know, he, he definitely the Ivy league thing, especially back then. Not so much now is really, um, looked highly upon. You, you went to Brown. He did get on, it was the very last show that you were there. Woody Harrelson finale. He got the very last sketch on of the night, which was, uh, called Fetal Abuse, Laugh-a-thon. And it was Victoria Jackson, pregnant, Woody Harrelson. Getting, I think the Hartman was the concerned father and he leaves and, you know, just be careful and stuff. And Woody Harrelson is just talking, you know, um, Irish coffee, the caffeine and the alcohol, I think they cancel each other out. So she’s drinking and it’s just like one beat after another. And it’s like, I think she has her, her pregnant belly at one point. She like in the microwave and it’s like going, and then it cuts, I think at the end, she fells down the stairs and then it cuts to John Lovitz being, like, that was me as a child, please watch the Jon Lovitz, um, special. This week he was gone by then, but yeah, um, that special was really fun. That’s some of the Godfather. I think James Caan was in that. But yeah, that’s great. Let’s watch the John love it special or whatever. But my point is, is Ian, you know, got that on at the very last thing and that maybe that had an impression of him. I’m, I’m not really sure.
He’s such a good guy. And, uh, He was asked back. So he came out. Yeah, those last two shows and got that sketch on. He was asked back the next year. He should have been asked. I mean, he’s a very funny writer. I really liked Ian. Uh, Ian’s like a really good guy. Like he’s a really, really good guy.
I thought this was really interesting because it’s like you get to SNL. You’re so wide. And when you first get there and it’s the Sharon Stone week with Pearl jam. And not only are you around 8H just being like, I can’t believe I’m here. Then you have Eddie Vedder who, you know, Pearl jam, they broke, but not to the extent. I mean, they were still like, you know, this band that wasn’t like selling at Madison Square Garden or anything. So you’re, you’re a wide eyed and then you, you meet Eddie Vedder at the, in, um, he’s wide eyed as well. And so you have this connection with him.
Yeah, Eddie Vedder. Uh, a lot of times a record company will do a deal where if someone they know is going to break, if you get booked on Saturday Night Live, then they’ll, they’ll let you have the Rolling Stones or something like that. And they hadn’t broke yet Pearl Jam. So I got to go down and watch the band’s rehearsal, which is great on Thursday. And I go down there and there’s this group Pearl Jam, which people hadn’t heard about yet. And there’s this guy, Eddie Vedder singing Alive. That voice was insanity. I couldn’t even believe what I was hearing here. So I waited when they were done, he walks off stage, Eddie Vedder does. And like I said, they didn’t, they weren’t known at this time. And I go, man, that was unbelievable. Your voice, what? And then he came up to me, he goes, do you work here at Saturday Night Live? You work here? And I go, yeah. I can’t believe I’m talking to somebody who works here at Saturday Night Live. This is amazing. I was just like a mad scientist skateboarding through the streets of San Diego. When I, I suddenly I was doing a band and here I am on Saturday Night Live. I can’t even believe I’m here. And he was talking, and he’s so nice, so fricking nice. And he was talking to me for 15, 20 minutes, just, and he kept repeating it. Like, he couldn’t believe I worked there, how happy he was to be there and how he’s just a mad scientist skateboarding the streets of Seattle and San Diego and how happy he was to be there. And then a couple of years later, They broke and they were giant, and he was still a nice guy, but there was all this giant crew and all these publicists and managers, agents, and he was like, Oh, hey, yeah, and I was like, where’s that guy? Where’s that guy? Hanging out, you know,
Two years. That’s all it takes. They came back was Emilio Estevez, and that would have been 94 with Pearl Jam. You did that sketch. You did the, um, The bench one, right? How much can you bench? Is that, was that yours with Spade? With, um, Spade, everyone else had like the, the small legs and they kind of like the puppet legs, but Spade used his own.
Yeah. Spade’s one of my favorite guys to write for, period. But I remember thinking, is this going to hurt his feelings? Cause you know, uh, right. They had puppet legs. They only worked on their upper body strength. And Emilio Estevez, by the way, probably the nicest host ever. I would think, you know, he’s up there. And, uh, How much a bench was one of my favorites, because every time I walked into any gym, uh, guys would get competitive with me because I couldn’t bench. And, uh, how much you bench as if that should matter. But anyway, I love doing that one. There were some people that would come in there and they would, they would be so respectful of SNL and they’d be so like, in awe of it and there was some hosts and I won’t say their names. They would come in and they would tell us what we’re doing wrong or why it’s wrong or whatever. And you don’t see them around anymore. A lot of them, you know, they just kind of. I don’t know. There’s just.
So some of these people would come in and you, they, they’re like, this is what’s wrong with the show, and this is what we need to do?
Yeah. And a lot of times they didn’t know what they’re talking about. Sometimes maybe they did. I don’t know. But the ones who like Tom Hanks or Chris Walken, Chris Walken is one of my favorite hosts to work with and write with. He was so happy to be there, but like, I just couldn’t believe I was sitting with these guys. And, uh, it’d actually be a lot. Actually, can I tell a quick Walken story?
I would love that. You wrote the talk show thing for him, right? That was like, he was like a talk show host and they had the chyrons or he’s like, that guy is like, um, maybe I’m off on that. I thought that was yours.
He did this thing called The Continental. It was his idea where it was a TV show that he watched growing up in Queens. It was a 15 minute TV show. I guess they used to do that Yes. The guy showing you how to pick up women. And so the camera was on him the whole time, as if it was the woman’s POV that sitting on, it was just me and Walken writing in my office. And I was like, I was in heaven. The guy is so funny. He’s amazing. Of course. Every time I would see him like in LA, Lorne would call me and say, Oh, Chris is in town because he doesn’t drive. So I get to drive him around, you know, and hang out with him and you go, I know you, yeah, I know you know, I just never remembered for sure, but we’re writing. And, and then, uh, I just, I’ll just make this really quick. I go, Hey, what if you say to the girl, I, the woman you’re picking up and showing us how to pick up, what’d you say? I have fallen for you and I can’t get up. And he goes, why would I say that? And I go, Oh, like the commercial I have fallen and I can’t get up. The Life Alert commercial, like that. He goes, I don’t know it. No, no, I don’t want to say that. And I go, oh no, all you have to say is I have fallen for you and I can’t get up. He goes, I’ve fallen for you. I can’t get up. I go down to just maybe a little bit more like this, like this. And finally he says, no, how many times I can say, no, I’m not doing that joke. No. And so I go, Whoa. And so I backed off or whatever, whatever we did… And then on Saturday, we’re doing the dress rehearsal. And I say, Oh my God, this joke, I know where it goes. I know where it will kill. And I went up to him like five minutes before he was out to do the dress rehearsal of that sketch, the continental. And I go, Hey, Chris, can I just put it in there? All you have to say is I fall in for you and I can’t get up. I’ll put, I know exactly what I put in the cue cards. All you had to say it. He goes, fine, put it in there. I’m so sick of you. So I ran and put it on the cue cards. And then. Out on the dress rehearsal on the show, he does that line and it destroys and as the sketch is over, I’m standing there waiting to see what he says. He walks by me to go do the next sketch and as he walks by me, he goes, I don’t know what I said, but I’m saying it again! I won that one.
So he’s a dress. It worked. And then he said that would have been, I think it was January of 96. Did you know that was it? Tom Davis originally. Came up with that with Chris Walken. I mean, it was an established, it was based on a real thing. Did you write that? I mean, Tom was gone by then.
Uh, no, uh, Al Franken and Tom Davis, they had written it for him, like he had done it before, but this was, uh, one of his return hosting gigs and I got to write it with him. So, but it was his original idea. Cause he had seen that show. Yeah. The actual show that it was based on in the fifties, early sixties in Queen. Yeah,
Amazing. You got to work with Chris Walken and so many of these people. Fred Wolf, I have so many pieces of paper here with questions that I have not got into. Will you please come back?
Oh, I can’t wait. I Mark, I cannot wait to come back. First of all. Secondly, I don’t think I drove you crazy talking about myself too much here.
Are you kidding me? No, no, no, not at all. This was, um, we talked the other day. You said it was two hours. I thought it was like 20 minutes, but no, I mean, Um, some of my favorite, like the John Travolta cold open where him walking around and stuff. Like, I wasn’t sure if you wrote that or even the Charlton Heston one, but I’m pretty good at spotting what your style is. And I’m wrong sometimes. I mean, it’s just like the Patrick Stewart, the one where he’s the devil and stuff. It’s like, it’s just like one thing after another, the polar bears. with a Jimmy Fallon writer, um, Arthur Meyer. There’s so much stuff. I really Little Women, Pyramid of Pain with Alec Baldwin. So many things I really want to talk about. So, um, yeah, please come back. This would be fun.
Thank you. And when I come back, if I could tell you a story about, uh, the polar bear. And the, uh, you know, the director’s story, you know, Paul Thomas Anderson, uh, Sandler said I could tell the story, uh, because he’s part of it and, uh, I’d love to tell it to you.
I can’t wait to, uh, talk about that. Yeah, that was the, that was really pivotal because that was the last sketch. That was Duchovny, Rod Stewart, the finale before everybody got the axe. I mean, all those cast members and a lot of symbolism there. So Fred Wolf, thanks for doing this.
Oh, Mark, thank you so much. This is a blast, a sheer blast. You’re, you’re the man. You are.
