Over a three-decade career, Jim Pitt has been an integral part of three late-night families, having worked at Saturday Night Live, Conan O’Brien’s three shows, and Jimmy Kimmel Live. Along the way, he’s been responsible for some of late-night TV’s memorable music bookings, including Nirvana on Saturday Night Live and Radiohead on Conan.
Last week in Part 1 of their two-part conversation, Pitt told Mark Malkoff about how he got his start at Saturday Night Live, and shared stories from his days working at the legendary sketch show. This week in Part 2, Pitt explains why he left SNL to take a chance with a then-untested Conan O’Brien, and what it was like to be there at the very start of what would be a legendary late-night run.
He also discusses his current role at Jimmy Kimmel Live!, where he continues to scout new talent while working with some of the biggest acts in the music business.
Click the embed below to listen now, or find Inside Late Night on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Show Transcript
Mark Malkoff: At the end of the 92-93 season, you have Robert leaves to do, uh Smigel leaves to do Conan. You have Jack Handey, the Turners, Christine Zander leaves. Um, at that point, did you know when you went to the Rainbow Room press conference with Conan in ‘93, when they were announcing him as host, when you showed up to that and you weren’t even invited, you just showed up, you know, you were leaving at that point, or was it just like…
Jim Pitt: No, I was interested. I was interested and I saw that. So, the whole lead up to that was, it was interesting, of course, with Conan being involved was so unlikely, and of course that was such a happy ending. But even Dave leaving, you forget that it was, it was still sort of, up in the air, right up to the day they announced, like he may stay, you know, NBC may retain him. And I think it was like a Thursday afternoon or whatever this, you know, all of a sudden there’s a press conference and it’s on our feed in the building and Howard Stringer and like, and they’re, they’re introducing Dave. And I just remember seeing that on the monitor in the conference room on the ninth floor, and just being sort of deflated, like, uh, you know, that, that because he was such an NBC guy and what’s it going to mean and, and all that. And then fast forward a couple of months and, and Conan emerges as the most unlikely candidate and he gets the gig. And I, you know, I was friendly with Conan and, you know, he’d left, of course, (for) The Simpsons by then, but I had a great relationship with him and Robert. And so at the Rainbow Room press conference, they were in a little waiting area, it was either just before or just after, and, And I went up and said, “Hi,” and I said, “This is amazing. Congratulations. I would love to work with you guys.” And they’re like, “Great, let’s talk.” And then, you know, they were swept off somewhere else and that’s how it started. And, and Jeff… Lorne had brought on Jeff Ross to be Conan’s EP along with Robert. And, uh, so I met with, I went to Lorne and asked his for his blessing. And, and he, uh, gave it to me. He said, “Oh, I had such plans for you,” which always kind of made me laugh. I, uh, I had been sort of jealous of Sheila Rogers at Letterman because she booked such cool music for whatever it was for five nights a week, four nights a week. And I thought it would be a lot more fun to do a wide variety of things. And so I talked to Jeff and I was one of the first people on the ninth floor, like July I think of 93.
How much of a decision did you have with Max Weinberg and his band getting the permanent job because there were they auditioned? I understand there were some other musical groups that auditioned.
There were yeah, I was right in the middle of that. Probably I arranged a lot of those auditions and solicited submissions. There were a few others, uh, John Lurie and the Lounge Lizards, probably. I don’t know if that’s well known, but they were, they auditioned.
That’s what I was going to ask. If there was anybody else, like a name.
Yeah, John Zonars put together a little band. He was, he, you know, took a run at it. And so we had all these auditions over at SIR, and Max and Jimmy put together, you know, a band of guys from New Jersey and, uh, it went back and forth. There was definitely a faction. In the Broadway Video world that thought John Lurie was the way to go. But I don’t think he, I don’t think Conan vibed as much with him as, as he did with Max. I think the feeling was that might paint you into a vibe that might be a little less flexible and just might not be Conan’s thing. John was obviously a very cool, uh, choice, but it might’ve run its course. And I don’t think John would have wanted to do it full time, you know, for a long time, he did write the theme song though, or he and Howard Shore got official credit for it, but that was a song that they did in their audition.
Oh, wow. So Howard Shore was at the audition ,or he had just co wrote that piece. Howard Shore was involved in the choice.
You know, Lorne sort of brought his whole team, his whole Broadway Video team to bear on it. You know, so Eugene Lee initially was involved in the set and Howard was involved. I worked with him and a guy named Jim Biederman at Broadway Video on the auditions and I think there are probably three other bands who played for us, but I think Max, I was gonna say, I think they just presented… It just felt like that would work for Conan. On a number of levels.
Was it decided that there would be no rock and roll? That the show didn’t want to do what Paul Shaffer was doing with his band. That would have been the most logical thing, as to maybe that’s what the younger people wanted, but you were all trying to do something different. But was that a rule?
What rule?
That you weren’t going to go with. Okay. I’ll give you an example. When I went to the show and I was going right, almost right away, Max Weinberg and the band came up for the warmup. They’re playing a 1936 or 1935 Irving Berlin, uh, “Cheek to Cheek,” written for Fred Astaire and they’re trying to get the younger, younger people. And it just was not the obvious choice to go to. And I’m just, um, was wondering if, if that was not even an option to try to go.
Oh, for the house band.
Yeah, for the house band.
You know, I just think that I thought was also Conan and Robert really were thinking classic, you know, they put putting Conan in like what they described as like “Dick Van Dyke suits,” you know, with a skinny tie and the sort of the classic look. And I think that kind of band was sort of a nod to the Tonight Show Orchestra, Doc Severinsen. It was a smaller version, certainly. So I think that was it too. Trying to keep that tradition going, but then we certainly, with the choices of music guests, took it in many other directions.
That was unbelievable. I mean, even on the test shows, who did you have for music other than Sheryl Crow, who did a test show? They did a bunch of them.
Sheryl Crow did a test show. We did, we had a band called The Indians who ended up doing there on there on, uh, one of the, well, what became one of the Universal labels, but yeah, they had an album out at the time. So they did a test show. I think we only did two musics on the test shows. So. It was Sheryl Crow and The Indians, both of whom were on the regular show soon after. But yeah, the Sheryl Crow one on a test show is a great thing to hang your hat on to just because, you know, it’s a, it’s a great, obviously she’s a great artist.
And then you have her early on and then she’s on the first week of The Tonight Show when Conan takes over for the Tonight Show for the brief tenure.
Yeah
I love that.
We had a few carry over things. I mean, the Tony Bennett tradition, we carried that on.
Yes. Every December. Right?
Yeah. Tony Bennett, in my mind, you know, we, the first few months, it’s no secret were, you know, up and down and, and a little bit of a struggle, booking wise. Music-wise, not so much. Cause I could go super left field and do cool stuff. And it was more like the lead guest situation was, was tough. So anyway, in December, Tony Bennett, you know, I was able to book Tony Bennett and he was, uh, the lead talk guest and music. And this is just my very own opinion, but I felt like when he did it, it kind of was a blessing from a showbiz legend that, I don’t know, it felt to me like, okay, we’re in the, we’re in showbiz now, you know, this is great. And then, of course, two months later, Dave comes on and that changed everything.
That was unbelievable. I loved watching that progression. And then I was there that summer when Conan first finally got confidence. I mean, the college audiences and stuff, and I was there and I could see that. It was, he was a different guy and um, the show definitely had a different energy, which was unbelievable. You said in Vanity Fair that there were bands early on that you relied on. They Might Be Giants were a phone call away. They were in Brooklyn, definitely some last minute calls. Who were some of the other bands that were just, that you had at your disposal maybe to have on if you needed somebody last minute?
Well, they were the big one because they were local. Jonathan Richman, who also sort of made a statement for us musically, because he was he was sort of a legendary figure, but definitely on the cult side of things, but is looked upon as like one of the founders of punk rock. So he loved the experience. He was on, I think our first or second week, he did our show like seven times in the first three or four years. To the point where, I mean, he was calling us and telling us when he wanted to come on again. And he paneled, you know, a few times. And it was very, I don’t know if you’ve ever watched any of those interviews, but he’s a very awkward guy. So they weren’t the smoothest interviews, but it was. It was definitely, uh, so he was someone that we relied on a lot and Bare Naked Ladies were another one who that wasn’t like they were a phone call away But they were a new band that kind of fit our vibe, you know kind of nerdy and yeah, man, it was just such a great period for alternative bands and new bands and artists and so it was a it was a real mix of like Les Paul and, you know, Urge Overkill on, you know, back to back nights is a lot of a lot of kind of like your podcast. There’s a lot of people who aren’t around anymore and it was really cool to get them.
I love that you had on that fair first season. Mel Torme came on and, you know, just the old school because they would get, you know, Steve Allen or a Sid Caesar, but in terms of a music person, not necessarily that they would get a old school crooner.
Mel Torme was great. Paula Davis, my dear friend and, you know, Conan’s still Booker and she and I started SNL on the same day, uh, in, in 86. We, we still laugh about, you know, there are certain, certain guests who, you know, would have a certain style or, or have a line that of course, some of them are notorious. Now, um, there was talk of gerbils, you know, Mickey Rooney, uh, Mel Torme had a thing where, yeah, he’s classic showbiz guy. And I don’t know what to ask him a question. He’d say, like, “How long have you been doing this for?” And he’d say, “Well Conan, I’ve been doing this for, wait for it. 45 years,” he went to “Wait for it,” like two or three times in his interview, which is, I don’t know, it made us laugh.
I love the fact that some of these people like Steve Allen and Sid Caesar were not probably, you know, getting on network television and, and that they were able to do this. I know that you had on, I remember show number two, Mary Tyler Moore and, and Radiohead. And then you had Green Day and all, all these people. When they came in like a Radiohead or Green Day, was it, could you just tell that they were going to blow up? They were popular, but not to the extent, I mean, it was, wasn’t that their first album, Radiohead?
It was, and Green Day. We did so many artists, like, you know, four or five, depending on how many nights you’re on, a week. They all had a hit of the moment and I don’t think you could necessarily tell or that Weezer was gonna, you know, be around for so long and I I wish I could say, you know, I had the foresight to book radio head It’s like conan loved that song and they I was able to get them on that show And you know, it’s it’s obviously a great legacy and a great first musical guest If you don’t count Tony Randall singing Edelweiss at the end of show number one.
You did an interview and this was, for me, it was fascinating because it didn’t ever occur to me because you watch Radiohead on Show 2 and they have, there’s a television screen.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
It’s just, um, I don’t know, you, you, stock footage more or less never occurred to me that you would have the band actually pick out what that stock footage would be shown behind them.
That was an idea of, it was either Robert or, or Robert and Conan together. And it was like, yeah, let’s just put like random footage behind them. And we ended up giving them a list of stock footage options that we had. And so for the first, it probably lasted four or five months. They would choose it. And it was like classic dentist’s office footage or, you know, cars being assembled or just really random stock footage, uh, which I think probably got expensive and we just moved away from it, but it was, it was something different, uh, and at first it was just this big hung drop, like (with) Radiohead… that’s pretty unsightly thing behind them, you know, that, that footage is on. And they chose cars driving around slowly in a circle. And, uh, and then about a month later, like the designers put together like a more stylish sort of screen on an angle. So yeah, it was just, they wanted to do something that was just presented it a little differently. And I thought it was a fun idea.
It was definitely fun and different. I want to talk about some of the guests the first year that had enough leverage to be able to do music.
Oh my God.
David Faustino was one who, I mean, he needed guests. And I mean, Married with Children, I believe, was still on. So it’s basically like, “I will come on, but you’re gonna let me rap.”
Well, there were a few, and there are a few that we still can laugh about Cybil Shepard was one.
I was there.
Oh, you were oh,
I was there I couldn’t believe it in my head. I was like there is no way they’re gonna let her sing unless she said “I’m coming on I’m singing” and then tell me if I have this wrong I have a memory that there was a band on After that at the end of the show and it was her boyfriend’s band, but I could be off on that.
Oh Okay, I think you’re conflating her with Kathleen Turner.
Oh, is it Kathleen Turner that did that? Okay.
Her boyfriend Jay something or other, or husband and I, that’s rude to, I, I just can’t remember the name. He had a band called like The Stockbrokers or some, some name like that. And she, I think, did a song with them. Cybil Shepherd did a song called “Talk Memphis to me.”
I was there. Oh man.
Uh, and, uh, Kathleen Turner, um,
Faustino.
Faustino did a song. Oh, there are a couple of others too.
Who?
Well, there was, um, uh, Katey Segal. She sang, um,
She was, she was going out with a musician. I think it was a drummer or something. And, um, I remember that she was during that. I didn’t know that.
Yeah. And then there are a couple that weren’t, it was not in exchange for a lead guest, but one of my favorites, because this ended up being a memorable appearance, uh, but was Ted Williams did the show. And the way that he got on was his son called me one day, he kind of notorious guy, John Henry Williams, who…
Yeah, he passed away.
Yeah, it turned out that you know, he was like treating Ted like a slave, like signing stuff and whatnot. Um, never mind the all the frozen, you know, the cryogenics and all that stuff but um You Uh, he called and said, I’m managing this band called the Pat McGuire band. And if you’ll book them, I’ll get my dad to do the show.And, you know, Conan grew up in Brookline and literally in the shadow of, you can see the lights from Fenway Park from his house. So we were like, “Oh, why not? How bad can they be?” You know? And so they, they had a record and it was fine. So they did the show and then Ted Williams came on and, uh, no, I say memorable just because you didn’t see Ted Williams on a lot of talk shows.
He did Later with Bob Costas. And I think that that might’ve been it. He didn’t, he was, didn’t do a lot of it. And that was to plug his book.
Right. So that was a, that was a quid pro quo, but that did not happen very often. I have to say, but yes, you’re right about the guests who. Oh, here’s another one. Conan may have recently mentioned Chris Jagger did the show, Mick Jagger’s brother. And that, that was a call.
Sounds made up.
That was the call.
I’m sure it’s not made up.
No, it’s not. That was a call from upstairs.
Oh yeah, of course.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but you know,
Chris, how was Chris Jagger?
Not great. It was, how much have you heard of Chris Jagger since then? You know? Oh, here’s another one. Uh, Roger Clinton.
Oh my goodness.
Yeah. Yeah. Roger Clinton performed. And I can’t remember what. I guess I’m guessing he sang. I’ve got all, it’s all on my computer here, but
He was infamous at the time.
Yeah, he was.
He might’ve been a sit down with Letterman too. I think he was at one point, but he was kind of a Billy Carter a little bit, but not as much.
Yeah, not, yeah. He wasn’t as, as wild as Billy Carter, but you. He, um, yeah, Roger Clinton, and I’m sure there if I think of any others, I’ll I’ll send them your way because that was definitely a thing, you know,
That’s so fascinating. I always wanted to know about that. Lorne that first year really wasn’t going through his Rolodex too much to get people booked on the show. I mean, the only person I know for that was hosting SNL that week when you started that came down was Jeff Goldblum. I, you know, now it’s like, if you’re on, you’re doing Fallon, you might, maybe Seth Meyers and it’s, but back then, you know, I know that, you know, Paul Simon and stuff, maybe not, wasn’t necessarily who, um, you know, you were booking, but it’s still, it’s Paul Simon, right? You know, it’s Steve Martin and you want as much…
Oh, no. We would’ve taken them with open arms. But no.
But he, he wasn’t, he would get the cast members to come down and, and do it. Right. But he wasn’t pushing, he really wasn’t offering personal bookings. Is that fair to say?
I know the first, of course, the first show was such a big deal, um, and I know he helped with, it was Drew Barrymore and, and John Goodman, I believe, and George Wendt. But, um, but no, no, we were struck. We struggled. I mean, there’s no question it was. I always like to cite one of the low points being the day that like Bob Denver cancelled day of. Because he lived on a mountain in West Virginia and it was snowing or something. I can’t remember what it was.
I just remember, um, Alec Baldwin came in in December and I couldn’t believe they, you guys got such a, at the time, A-lister.
Right, right.
And he wasn’t hosting SNL, but I just. To me, I was just like, it’s not Al Roker who was coming on to do the show all the time. And…
Yeah, yeah.
And very good guest, by the way, and entertaining, but Alec. And then I remember that. I don’t know if you remember this story or not, but Christian Slater was hosting SNL and he wouldn’t come down to do Conan’s show, but he went down to meet Shatner because he was a big Star Trek fan or say hi. And Conan was on with, um, years later with, with Slater and talking about, and he’s like, “Yeah, you remember, yeah, you didn’t come do my show.” Because nobody that was an A lister was really doing it. I mean, it’s, it’s strange to think about.
Right. We had to educate the whole industry really about who he was and everything. And then, you know, we come out of the box with some very different kind of comedy and stuff. And so people were not lining up at first. And it was, you know, once that changed, it was great. Of course,
I remember when it changed and it was so exciting and I feel like Conan and Andy really found their voice. The writing was there from day one. At what point do you start calling Paul McGinnis? Because you finally get U2 on in, uh, in 2005. And this is like a dream, you know, probably of Conan’s too, to get U2 on. When do you start the calls to, to, and I’m guessing that’s who you’re calling?
No, I was dealing with Laurie Earl at, at Interscope Records really.
Okay. So you’re not, you don’t go to the manager, you go into the record label.
I would say that 90% of bookings go through publicists. Yeah. But relationships with managers are obviously a huge thing too. You know, we tried, we kind of made the token effort every time they had a record. And then she called me one day. I think we got the reputation because we had done a week with The White Stripes and we had done a month of Mondays with The Strokes when they were the hottest band around, so we got a reputation, I think, for doing things that maybe Letterman wouldn’t commit to, or other shows, where, you know, they wanted multiple days or so she called and said, like, “What would you think about a whole show with U2?” And so in that case, like I’d love to say I was a hero, but I, you know, I just kind of guided it to its completion. And that was an amazing, that was an amazing day.
You were heralded in the press. I mean, they gave you full credit. I mean Variety, Hollywood Reporter, other places were like, Jim Pitt. I mean…
Yeah, well, I’ll take it.
What was that day like? I mean, to get someone like Larry Mullen to do a comedy bit, I’m like, he’s gonna say no, but he totally was, they were up for it.
Here’s how that week worked. It’s like, I remember like Jeff Ross, our whole team got very activated. U2, we got no details from you too, until I want to say the day before, like they were in, we didn’t have their ear yet. And, and so a lot of stuff came together at the last minute. All we knew is we were doing a whole show and we had all these ideas and that they were doing, I think four songs. That was it. It all real. Once they were there, they were 100 percent focused and a lot of it came together that day and uh, and it was a, like you said, it was a fun show. It had a spontaneity. Conan was great with them, and they had a blast. They stuck around for a long time after they were, they opened champagne. They gave me and Jeff Ross, their special edition iPod signed by all of them afterwards. And then it was all mixed by Edge and he was there, like had our engineers there, I think until the show was being fed, you know, at 12:15 or whatever, or fed live at 12:30. That was an amazing experience. And then. I think this was the order it happened… like a month later. Neil Young does the show for a week. So that was, uh, that was the fall of ‘05, I believe.
I do want to point out you are at Jimmy Kimmel live. And when you got there in 2017 in, um, I think it was April, the very next month you got U2 on for the very first time on Kimmel. So I’m guessing, you know, you’re coming in and you have these relationships. So are you able to get the other acts such as U2 that had never done based on your relationships?
No, I will say I have to give all credit. The U2 talks were already in motion at Kimmel. So I. It looked, you know…
It looked good.
It looks good.
It looks like you did it.
And I’ll take it. But, um, you know, I think when you’re there and you’re the booker, there are times when it comes across the transom and there are times when you bust your ass for it, and I think you deserve equal credit, you know, because you are running the thing that in that case, Mac Burrus, who’s a dear friend and co worker at Kimmel and he does sort of the John Zonars thing there, he had that already had that teed up and ready to go and the folks from Nasty Little Man, you know the publicity firm, already had that in the works So, um, I was fortunate enough to be there because that was an awesome performance. There was a lot of disappointment on the Kimmel side because they weren’t, they weren’t willing to do a big close down the Hollywood boulevard, you know, kind of look, but I thought they did an acoustic in the studio version of “Still Haven’t Found What I’m Looking For.” And to me, that’s magical. That was another great one. But, but yeah, back in 05, uh, I think that’s, I think that was White Stripes, uh, U2, Neil Young. It was just, just a really fertile time. And then, yeah, we became just a real destination for that kind of thing. And it was, yeah, it was a lot of fun.
It’s amazing. And then one person I know you really wanted that just doesn’t really do almost anything is Bob Dylan. Are you contacting Jeff Rosen, his manager? Are you going through the, his record and how often are you just checking in to see if maybe if Dylan’s going to do something, cause you never know and you have to ask.
Yeah, you never, you never know. So he’s got two managers. He’s got Jeff Rosen and Jeff Kramer. Jeff Kramer also manages Paul Simon. Um, and his son, Matthew Kramer worked for us at Conan at TBS. So I know Jeff fairly well, and he’s the one I would talk to. And like you said, you every once in a while, Like at Kimmel, we were talking about the outdoor stage and he was like, well, you know, could Bob just pull the bus up and come off and do it. And, you know, so he entertained it, but you know, that’s, that’s such a long shot. We’ve been working on a Paul Simon booking. And here’s, I got it to the point where he was doing one of our Brooklyn shows two years ago, and he was doing the show on Friday and on Wednesday, he tested positive for COVID. And he’s like one of Jimmy’s. Yeah, like number one guy. So that was, that was very disappointing. Um, you know, that’s showbiz.
Yeah, things happen sometimes. But yeah, Paul Simon, an amazing performer. Um, if you’re okay to say it, who were some of the musical groups or the singers that were not comfortable doing comedy bits for Conan that were presented to them as possibly?
Boy, that’s a good way to ask. I mean, I, you kind of forget the ones who say who pass because we went out to a lot of people. I mean, yeah. So I don’t know if I can even come, come up with a good list, but I’ll, I like to focus.. my favorite musician doing comedy, I think it was David Bowie. I mean…
Oh yes.
Just you look at that stuff and he was so committed.
The secrets
Secrets, and his panel had a lot of bits in it to, you know, he sang a little Hickory Dickory Dock as David. He just had a child, I think, and was singing a nursery rhyme and his appearances were just magical, but we’d go out to him, Mike Sweeney and I still laugh about this. They, we would present all sorts of ideas to Bowie, but, you know, people do stuff when they’re promoting something, you know, it’s very rare that anybody is going to come on sort of out of cycle and just do it, it’s just not the way it happens. As much as people like to think, you know, “I just thought I’d stop by,” you know, that, that rarely happens if ever, but we pitched so many. Sweeney had so many ideas for David Bowie. And, and the response would from Mitch Schneider, who is his publicist at the time would just be, “He’s not in performance mode.” And so that became almost like a joke between Sweeney and I, “You know, if Bowie’s in performance mode? We have this idea, we want to pitch,” uh, and, you know, some of the ideas, I mean, I will admit, I’d look at them and be like, “Okay,” you know, uh, some I would, I would give full throated endorsements to in my pitch. And then some, I would say “The writers have asked me to send along this idea,” you never know.
Working at Conan for so many years, did you have to just start wearing earplugs for, for music or at SNL or are you just good hearing and you don’t have to worry about that stuff?
Oh, no, I, it has, coincidentally, I’ve had issues with one of my ears and I’ve had a number of surgeries on it that aren’t related to noise or loud music. But whether it’s the surgeries or, or the combination of just every day being exposed, it’s definitely taken a toll on my hearing, but I I’ve worn earplugs probably for 10 years now, every day at work, and every show I go to probably longer, I’ve had custom ones for a long time and those make a bit, you know, you get a mold, it’s kind of like those in ear monitors that musicians wear.
That’s great that you do that. At what point do you tell Conan that you would want to work remotely and just come in maybe once, uh, every month, maybe for a week?
It was around 1996 and we had had two children. My wife and I lived in, um, Scarsdale in a, in a co-op up there. And we’re just at the point where we, you know, needed more room and I don’t know, for some reason, I felt like we had to either move further out of the city or find somewhere else to live. And I didn’t really have a better plan except just staying in New York, staying where we were. So my sister lived in Nashville and it was really the only place we looked and we liked it there. So we decided we were going to move to Nashville and I would leave the show, which I know is crazy to think of now, because I ended up, I’ve been doing this so long. And I met with Jeff, we went to have lunch on the 7th floor commissary, to talk about who he gets to replace me, and just off the top of my head, I literally hadn’t even thought about this ahead of time, I said, what if I say, “You can, I’ll take a cut in salary,” which I know is what really appealed to him. “And I’ll keep doing it remotely.” And, and he said, “Yeah, well, as long as you come back maybe a week a month for a while,” I don’t remember how he settled on that, but, so that’s how it started. And they flew me up and put me up every month for a week. And it’s kind of incredible. And in retrospect, and it really was sort of the forefront of remote work. You know, there’s no zoom to watch the show on, you know, I had to record it and watch it and just take the word of whoever was doing the job, you know, the Zonars job. It was Debbie Wunder for a long time. And then Roey Hershkovitz.
Yeah, Roe is great. I really like that guy.
Yeah. Roey is a great guy. And then just ask them like, all right, well, how did it go? And I was sort of.. So it was central time. So it was at like 5:30 central, I would sort of just always worry, like Jeff’s not calling. Cause if, you know, every once in a while, something went wrong, I’d get a call, but more often than not, everything was fine there, you know, there were, there were a couple of incidents that I was asked about and uh asked to explain uh, but um, but no, so that’s the thinking that went into it and that the kids both grew up in Nashville. My daughter is now Um a booker at the Ryman auditorium there. So she uh is carrying on the family business My son lives in Chicago. He’s a bartender there and was at Second City the other night seeing a show. So, um, it’s uh, they’ve both taken a little bit my past there, but yeah, um So that was an interesting move. And I did that and it’s crazy. I did that for 13 years. And then when Conan got the tonight show, Jeff said, “You really need to be there full time.” So I moved out here and I’ve been here ever since, you know, and that was a whole other experience, as you well know.
Yeah, when you were in Nashville, when did you start booking a theater? You were booking music acts.
Oh yeah.
And how did that come about?
That was 2002 to 2004. I did it for a couple of years. So it’s this great local theater called Belcourt, which is now sort of a legendary spot in Nashville. Uh, And they were struggling a little bit, there had been a campaign to save it, it was slated to be torn down, and a community group got together and saved it. One of the people on the board, a guy named Scott Manzler, approached me and asked me if I would consider, like, putting some shows in there. It intrigued me and I had, you know, I had a little bit of time, uh, and thought I could be fun and, you know, it felt a little community-minded, too, you know, not, um, I, I had never promoted a show before. And so with the help of a couple of friends, this guy named Norm Parenteau, who at the time was. Working for Gillian Welsh and David Rawlings and managed Old Crow Medicine Show. He helped me, he sent me like an offer. She like, he told me how to do it basically. And yeah, he provided some training wheels and, um, I promoted shows there for two years and you know, again, it’s almost like the, the radio head thing. Like two months in, uh, I had a show for 12 dollars. You could see Norah Jones’s first show in Nashville, you know,
That was like right before she broke, right?
It was right. As that album was breaking, it was, it was probably booked as the album was, was breaking, yeah, she probably could have played a place three times that size two months later.
She was paid, I read an interview with you and you said she got paid $500 for that. Yeah, and only a few months later, she’s going to be coming back. And what did her rate go up to?
Yeah, yeah, I, she ended up at a much bigger venue and yeah, that I couldn’t afford to…
She went from 500 to 50,000 dollars very quickly.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. She blew up.
So that was fun. That was so much fun. And we had a lot of great, great. Shows in there, a bunch with Gillian Welsh, uh, Joan Baez, Marianne Faithfull, uh, J. J. Cale. Yeah, all sorts of people. Yeah, that was a blast and I love the people who work there. So it was a great experience. It was a lot of fun. But then eventually it was like, you’re going to have to either learn how to make this like a real business or like what the, Oh, and the Belcourt was getting more successful in film. And that’s really, and they’ve since been renovated and it’s just, it’s a, it’s a great institution. And they were getting so successful booking film that the nights of availability were kind of going away from music. So the timing just kind of, it worked out that I kind of stepped aside from it, but it was a great experience and it was fun to do something where I lived and I learned a lot, and a lot of great people came through and, uh, and yeah, it was, it was a blast.
Were there any singers or band members at SNL or Conan musical guests that sent you a thank you card or called you or anything like that?
Once in a while you would get a note. I do remember at SNL, someone who, and I thought man, this guy was raised, you could tell, uh, he was taught to do this, but after Alec Baldwin hosted the first time, like, I don’t know how wide it was on the show, but I know everyone in the talent department got a handwritten thank you note, you know, just a personalized note saying, “Thank you for all your help. That meant a lot,” whatever, blah, blah, blah. It was his first time. And of course he’s since went on to become a legendary host. I do remember that vividly. And then, yeah, once in a while you’d get a thank you. I I got thank yous from people That were so meaningful to me and I I like to tell stories like this. I was at a club one night in Nashville, um called The Exit In, very famous venue and I was watching a band like it was in my usual spot, you know I I And a guy came up to me and I had booked his band on the show, maybe one of the like first year or two. That band didn’t really go on toomuch and he was a working musician, but he came up to me. And he said, “You know, you’ll never know how much that meant to me in my life, you know, to my family that legitimized everything I’d been doing up to that point musically,” and that touched me so much and I’ve gotten that a couple times from people And that to me means as much as getting like an iPod from U2 or whatever, because you just you don’t you don’t realize the impact, you know, I don’t want to say it’s a George Bailey moment, but it’s like It it is it’s important, you know, and um, and those things really, uh, They they really touch me and mean a lot to me, so…
I mean, so many people, I remember when I was in Hershey, Pennsylvania, The Ocean Blue came on your first season.
Yeah.
And we’re like, yeah, Ocean Blue. Um, from yeah, Hershey, they were older than me, but it was just like, “Oh my goodness, they’re going to be on national TV on Conan’s show.” Big deal.
Yeah, it was it was fun to be in that spot, and then of course to hear from people over the years “That’s where I discovered so many bands,” and and that like, you know It’s not easy for me to pat myself on the back, but I do love that and it means a lot to hear that from people and I I soak it up
No, it’s it’s amazing.
You know, I just did some and this is an aside, but I just I just did something with Conan. Uh, I he headlined the closing day of The Newport Folk Festival You And I came up with a whole concept for a show and put it together. And I put the band Dawes behind him and we had special guests and. And it killed. It was great. I don’t know if you saw it mentioned online anywhere, but, uh,
I saw there was a newspaper article about it, and they mentioned you.
In the past two years, I’ve had the opportunity to do some stuff on his SiriusXM channel, and you know, it’s all on the side from Kimmel, and no one has complained yet, so, uh. Again, this is not, this is, uh, tangentially, but, uh, but anyway, it’s been fun to be back in touch with him and working with him again and, and to know, and to put a show together for him, sort of knowing his sensibility so well.
Oh, I mean, if anybody knows it’s you. So when the show for TBS, it’s going from 60 to 30 minutes, the writing’s on the wall that music, is that when Jill Leiderman, I’m guessing it was Jill reached out to you at Kimmel or who reached out to you.
It was actually Jason, Jason Schrift, who was uh, another EP there along with Jill. But you know, they worked in tandem and and jill was certainly part of that decision as was Jimmy. And yeah, they’d gotten word through a friend of mine um at one of the labels, that Conan was, uh going to 30 minutes and They were looking to make a change in their music booking and um, you know, they gave me a place to land which, man, I mean, I’ve been in this business for so long and, and been so fortunate and, you know, I’m forever grateful for them and it was interesting going over to another show. It was, I will admit it was a little awkward at first, just because, you know, I came from a place where there was a family that had been started 25 years before, and then they were a whole, they were a family too, you know, and I was coming in from the outside, but the people couldn’t have been nicer and I, I’m part of that family now, and I just feel very fortunate that I was given that opportunity and Jill, Jill’s an amazing producer, and
I love Jill. We love Jill and yeah. Yeah. You have some, the writers over at Kimmel, I mean, Jesse Joyce is like, I mean in the top I, you know, if you talking about late night writers, I mean that guy, Jesse McLaren? When I worked at Colbert. He was an intern.
Oh, okay.
When I was there. And some really just really funny, funny people that are over there. How hard was that telling Conan that you were leaving after over two decades or…
Well, it was. You know, even though it was really I don’t want to say I pretended but I did agonize over it a lot and ask anybody who knows me from that or I talked to in that time frame. It was not an easy decision, even though I really didn’t have a decision, which is sort of the funny part. I didn’t really have a choice. I mean, I could have tried something else, but, uh, so it took me a while to fully sort of convince myself and commit that it was the thing to do, even though it made perfect sense, just emotionally, I think. So I think Jeff and Conan at first were, on the surface, like going to another show, I think maybe felt like, “Oh man, that, that’s not what we’re saying,” but I really didn’t have much of a choice.
You had to.
Jeff has since said, “You, you made the right move, you know, you definitely made the…” Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, yeah, you saw the TBS show, what it became and stuff, and it’s like, no, they weren’t…
There was no room for me and, you know, they had to make tough decisions and a lot of people had to leave too, and you know, It’s, it’s a business and, uh, and I get it and I, you know, but how, like I mentioned a couple of minutes ago, like I’m so thankful to still be connected with them. And I mean, they’re family, they are, you know, and we have stories of ups and downs and everything else, like all families and it’s. But through it all, it’s great to still have good relationships with everyone.
Yeah, and you’ve been at Kimmel now for a while.
Seven years.
What are a couple of highlights? Like three highlights or things that stand out that you were really proud of, or it took you a while to maybe get the book in and it paid off and you were happy?
Well, I would just say generally, bringing the same kind of sensibility that I had at Conan, and, and. They definitely want big names and I try, I do my best to deliver the big names, but I also try to deliver like high quality bookings. And so I’m very proud of the stuff we do there. And I, and I’m appreciative that Jimmy has Matt Mack and trust in Mack and I to, to deliver, we confer on everything. And, you know, I don’t know about three specific names. There are, there are many. And there’s nothing better to me than booking someone. And then months later, someone’s like, “Oh, what about so and so?” And I’m like, “Well, they were just on, you know, this is great new artists.” Like, “Oh yeah, they were on last March or whatever.” Or to have a very cool artist rehearsing and I see some of the writers down and I’m like, all right, this is, you know, they’re, they’re, they like the good stuff I could tell, you know? So, yeah, it’s, You know, Kimmel’s got that outdoor stage, which is a unique look.
It’s nice. I’ve been over there a couple times to visit.
Yeah, yeah, the people there are outstanding. It’s, yeah, so I’ve been so lucky, you know.
How many pitches do you get on an average day or an average week for people that want to go on? Not only from the publicist, the record label, but also I’m guessing people are sending in demos. How many requests are you getting, would you say?
Oh, it’s. It’s it’s constant. Um, I don’t know if I could put a number on it, but I will say, like demos and things like that, it’s easier to… Although it’s interesting, you know, I’d say that people who have less of a chance of getting on the show sometimes require more explanation why it’s not possible, you know, because they’re not they don’t have a publicist doing that work for them, and they want to know, “Well, you know, I I saw this 18 year old guitar player, Grace Bowers on the other night. I’ve never heard of her,” you know? And so some people, you just have to sort of explain like, well, I know, but she’s got a lot going on and, and we can’t just book someone because we like them. And, you know, there are, you have to defend every booking. The reasons for it. So those sometimes take a little bit of extra time, but pros in the business, if you said, you know, I don’t have a spot or, you know, it’s not going to work this time. I mean, they, they just need an answer.
Yes. And some people that don’t even get back to them with nos,
Right, right.
I know that you’re good about that.
I try, I try. I I’m not always great, but it’s, it’s overwhelming. Yeah, especially we just came off, I know, like poor me, we just came off a two week hiatus and the volume of stuff just waiting for you is, is crazy, you know.
Other than the 10, you did the 10 year, um, band contest on Conan, which was the first year other than that people sending in stuff, were there any other, any bookings on Conan or maybe Kimmel where it was somebody that it was not signed that just sent in a demo and you listened. And they had no representation, and you put them on.
Well, um, an example at Kimmel is, there’s a woman named, she went, goes by the name Lindsey Lab. And she wrote a song, I want to say it was like 2017 or 2018. And it was about, it was, she posted it on YouTube and she played ukulele. And it was about, it was sort of a pair and I, an ironic song about how like boys have it so hard. It was really cleverly done and it was funny. And, and on point. She didn’t, I don’t, I think someone on the show side and said, “We should put her on the show.” Well, that was the case where she didn’t have a rep. I called her home and said “That’s great. You know, we’d love to have you.” And those, those are amazing. And you fly them in. And so there’ve been a couple of things like that. Um, it doesn’t happen often, but those are special. And she was awesome. She was very nervous, but she killed it. And we had little kids sitting around her and yeah, it was. That was great.
It’s great when you can make dreams like that happen. Was there anything ever at Conan that was un airable with the music group that you just couldn’t air and then you last minute had Sweeney do stand up or Brian Kiley come on down and we can’t air this?
Um, no. I don’t think there was ever a music performance we couldn’t air. I mean there were definitely some Oh, well, there was one that didn’t air at The Tonight Show, was it The Tonight Show or TBS where Conan slipped and fell doing a panel segment he was chasing someone, I’ll have to uh, shoot iI’m blanking on who it was exactly, Megan Fox somebody there was They’re in bathing suits or something and there was water on the floor. He slipped and banged and hit his head. I don’t know if you’ve heard about this, but we had to stop the taping. So, and I had Rodrigo y Gabriela, this great Mexican guitar. Uh, but we had to postpone the show. Conan went and got x rays. He was fine, a little shaken up. So we, we shot them and aired them a different night, but as far as like quality wise, no, that’s, that’s never happened. There was another moment where the band Goldfinger was booked or kind of a punk style and in the nineties and after the song was kind of an exuberant performance, the, I think it was a drummer went over and like Conan went over to thank them and. He went over and hugged him and he picked Conan up and Conan slid over his shoulder and landed on his head. And I think it might be on YouTube and and it was a scary moment I mean he landed on his head and anything could have happened. But he jumped right up and it was clear that he was okay. So unexpected things do happen But yeah, that, that was, that was a little bit frightening
With Conan and Jimmy. How, how often were they giving you suggestions? I mean, Johnny Carson was famous for not giving suggestions because he said every time he tried to suggest somebody that they were not great.
Oh, that’s funny.
He would let them decide for the most part. Once in a while he would come up with a, if he saw somebody on TV or a comic or like Kinison, Jim McCauley wasn’t going to book. Carson saw Kinison at a restaurant and was like, why aren’t you doing my show? It’s like, well, McCauley won’t book me. And it’s like, okay, well, Oh, that’s right. That’s right. But how often was that with Conan and with Jimmy now?
Conan once in a while would say, “Hey, a friend of mine recommended this band. What do you think?” So a couple of things happened that way. Jimmy is certainly active in music, plays with a lot of people, has great taste. So, especially early on, a couple of, like Johnny Johnson, who was Chuck Berry’s piano player. Jimmy worked with him. So we had johnny on a couple of times and you know, that’s incredible and Max It was the same thing, you know, he Ed Shaughnessy came and sat in.
I was there for one of them.
Oh, well Max was gone, actually. He was, I think he had a Bruce thing of something, and so he was gone and Ed Shaughnessy sat in. And uh, and then was mad because Ed Shaughnessy moved his drums around or something.
No, to see Ed Shaughnessy there after Carson retired was, yeah, incredible.
Yeah, we had a few drummers. Earl Palmer, who is this legendary session, uh drummer sat in once we had some great sit ins, too. Uh Including, uh, uh, Jon, um, who’s our writer who played, uh, the shofar, uh, sitting in with the band.
Was it Glaser?
It was Glaser. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, played it seriously and, you know, like a musician. It was very funny. So yeah, we, I would get suggestions every once in a while. Um, which was great. One of Conan’s was from his friend. One of his friends had a band, uh, who dressed as 14th century Frenchmen. “The Upper Crust” was their name and that was their whole act. And they were in powdered wigs and the whole thing, but they were a great rock band. And so that, that was a fun booking. I think they did the show a couple of times and, uh, and Robert is a great music guy too. He had suggestions and, and like Jonathan Richman was a suggestion early on from. I want to say it was either Dino Stamatopoulos or Louis CK or Andy, one of those guys. So it was pretty collaborative early on. Like if you had an idea, you know, there were other writers, Dave Reynolds, you know, there were other people who had, who had suggestions that.. Andy, big music guy, said some things definitely came through him. Yeah. We kind of zeroed in on some artists that Conan just ended up loving, like a band, like Los Straitjackets, who nobody knew who they were. I mean, you know, outside of surf music fans. Knew who they were but they came became sort of regulars on our show, you know. They performed surf music in mexican wrestling masks. Just artists like that that were just a little bit different and fun and quirky really fit our our vibe. Because you know when you’re doing like hip music, you know, you don’t want to come across as trying to be too hip, you know, so it was always fun to do stuff that was just silly too.
I always liked, I could, I feel like I could tell sometimes with certain bands where Conan maybe didn’t know them and really appreciated them, like Badly Drawn Boy, I remember. Doing a song and he seemed really maybe moved by it and really appreciated that one.
Well, you know, it’s funny, it’s funny to say that because since I was only there for like one week, a month, uh, for, uh, for a number of years, my way of watching it would be on TV. And one that might be one of my favorite performances in the history of the show was My Morning Jacket, the first time they were on.
Oh yeah, I’ve seen them perform live.
And they did a song called “One Big Holiday,” and when they finished, he came across, and I could just tell, like, he’s blown away. Like, he loved that song. And he didn’t know, like, we talked about it on his radio thing. Like, you know, it’s a volume business and every day he would just see like a name on our Rundown and you know, he didn’t know and then so he would he would sometimes he would experience it from his desk You know for the first time
That’s great. They’re a great live band. Do you ever go to see concerts anymore, just because you’re around music all the time? Do you still go out just to see people that you want to see? Like, I’m going out to see Bob Dylan at the Hollywood Bowl.
I do, I was away for that, but um, uh, I do! I was at the Bowl last Sunday to see a band called Cronibin, I think is how you pronounce it. And, uh, I’ve seen a bunch of things this summer. Yeah, I still, I, it became easier with the pandemic and everything to stay home and, you know, momentum sort of slowed a little bit there on going out, but. I feel like you really need to do it every so often to stay in the mix. You run into people and it’s just seeing live music is, is good.
Your longevity is unbelievable. I mean, in late night with three different shows and the amount of people, I don’t, I can’t think of anybody in the history of late night with music that has has, um, even close. Well, Sheila, Sheila has done really well on Letterman and then James Corden. She’s now at Saturday Night Live. I guess maybe the two of you are the ones that in the history of the medium that I can really think of.
Yeah, I just consider myself really lucky. I still enjoy doing it. There’s still a thrill to presenting a new artist. I had this artist on the other night, Grace Bowers, 18 year old guitar player, who was phenomenal. And she’s going to be a big deal.
I think you’ve done this. I mean, for so many decades, it’s absolutely amazing. Jim Pitt, thank you so much for doing this. I’ve really wanted to talk to you. I was shocked that Carvey and Spade haven’t had you on. On their show yet. I mean, I’m guessing maybe eventually I would, I mean, somebody that was in the trenches over there and you know both of them.
I’d love to. Yeah. It’s fun to listen to theirs because there’s so many memories of mine that that, that they’re talking about. So it’s fun.
Yeah. I really like it. I have to confess, I don’t learn a lot about the show sometimes as much.
No, they’re, no, I know. They’re, they’re not always the, well,
They’re not like me.
Side note: They’re not always the, the most prepared.
But that’s okay. We have different, and I really do like their show. So Jim Pitt, thank you so much.
Thank you, Mark. It’s been my pleasure.
