Inside Late Night With Mark Malkoff Ep 23: Arthur Meyer

Arthur Meyer is a comedian, writer and actor whose on-screen credits include the TV shows High Maintenance, Shrill, and Jimmy Fallon’s two late-night shows where he served as a staff writer and performer for seven years.

He’s also got an encyclopedic knowledge of Saturday Night Live, something he shares with the host of Inside Late Night, Mark Malkoff.

For much of this week’s episode, Meyer and Malkoff compare notes on mid-’90s SNL, drilling down deep on the sketches that they think are most emblematic of each season—both good and bad.

Meyer also shares stories from his days at The Tonight Show, where he wrote sketches for several of his SNL idols, including Steve Martin, Dana Carvey and Robert Smigel and where he had the opportunity to read Bob Saget an actual fan letter he’d sent the Full House star when he was just eight years old.

Click the embed below to listen now, or find Inside Late Night on Apple PodcastsSpotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Follow Arthur on YouTube and Instagram. Visit the YouTube channel for his 50-episode digital series ABC Parenting and follow ABC Parenting on Instagram.

Show Transcript 

Mark Malkoff: Arthur Meyer, thanks for talking with us. 

Arthur Meyer: Thank you, Mark. Thanks for having me. I’m so excited and I’m a big fan of this podcast. 

Oh, you’re so nice. You know, I found it really interesting because I personally do remember the first time I really watched SNL with somebody else where it was contagious laughter, and I really gave the show a chance. And ironically, it was also at a sleepover. 1995 in May, the season finale, it’s David Duchovny and Rod Stewart, and you’re… it’s your birthday. You’re having a sleepover and you turn on what traditionally is not the strongest season. 

No

So you turn it to 11:30 and I remember the whole episode. I remember the, they did the X Files cold open before that was even really a huge, um, I think it had a cult following at that point. It was the first season, but it wasn’t an enormous hit. I remember the whole show, but tell me what impact and what you remember. From that night. Cause how impactful. And I mean, I mean, you’ve written for Jimmy Fallon, you auditioned for SNL. You’ve done so much. We have so much to talk about. You’ve written for Steve Martin, all of these people. But let’s take you back to being 11 years old that night. 

Oh, my God. Wow. Um, I think I just, you know, I had known of SNL. My very first exposure to SNL was that a family friend came over one night. We were having like a Thanksgiving or a Hanukkah party or something in 1992. And SNL had just released their, they, or they had just done their political episode cause there was an election that year and they did an election special, which was kind of, you know, they had written some, uh, little interstitial things for Dana Carvey and for, I guess it was probably for mainly for Phil Hartman and Dana Carvey. And I just remember I was only eight years old, but I watched that videotape over and over. Like they, I think they accidentally left the tape there and I just watched it. And you would think that this eight year old kid would not be able to understand these references to Jimmy Carter, you know, Dan Aykroyd doing Carter and stuff. But like all those impressions are so kid friendly, like Dana Carvey being Ross Perot feels like it’s almost aimed at kids or something. 

They do work on many levels. It’s almost like you’re watching a Bugs Bunny and they would write, put the adult references and sometimes in those Warner Brothers cartoons, those early ones, just completely over the, when you’re a kid watching it and stuff, but they would put those things in. And, um, definitely I can see like the Perot and things, yeah, working on different levels and stuff. 

Yeah, I mean, I guess that speaks to SNL’s ability to go broad with things. I think the show is always at its best when it’s kind of being both like broad and detailed and small specific at the same time. I think of someone like Kristen Wiig, who’s especially good at that. But anyway, that that videotape I watched over and over, I think the next year I vaguely remember watching a little bit of the Sally Field episode because I have the vaguest memory of seeing the Matt Foley Santa Claus sketch. 

Oh man, that was December of 93. That was Sally Field, Tony! Toni! Toné!, as you know. we’re going to talk about that. Yes. I am good with my host and my musical guest, but you, your superpower exceeds mine. We’ll talk about that in a little bit, but please continue. So you were watching the Sally Field episode a little bit. You remember that?

Yeah. And so I just, I kind of knew enough about SNL, but I never really stayed up to watch a full episode until yeah, my 11th birthday and it was that season finale. I had no clue it was the season finale. Um, and I think I just thought. That it was such a fun, I don’t know, everything about it just seems so fun. Like I’ve always just been so, I think I’ve loved SNL the way that like I loved sports when I was a kid where you just, you have all these different personalities and their energies are bouncing off each other and you don’t know if it’s going to be good or bad. I’ve never been bothered by watching a quote unquote bad era of SNL. There are so many dynamics that are just at play and you just get a chance in every episode to do like 10 or 12 different things. And I just, for whatever reason, I just love that. And I think I just thought that that cast was really funny. And I was probably young enough to not have any idea that it was, maybe on an objective level, a bad season of the show. 

It is one of those things that people tuned in. I mean, uh, you wouldn’t really know that, you know, two years before and stuff. I mean, they, it was just, it was a very different show. They had Carvey left. Um, by the time you watched, Phil Hartman, the season before, once you remove Robert Smigel and Jack Handey and, um, all these people from the equation, the Turners, Christine Zander. Smigel alone. You’re I mean, it’s going to be that rebuilding any sports team. I mean, you’re going to lose that many. It’s going to take a couple seasons and stuff, but they still, that season, and we can talk about this because I don’t really don’t get to talk to people almost ever anybody that knows the show like you do, um, that season. And, um, Definitely the writers and the cast weren’t working well together, but they were definitely some amazing shows and sketches and I still, if you do a “best of” that season, it exceeds a lot of seasons in the last like 2025 years in terms of like… 

I agree 

…with them in the one only real sketch that people I think look back on that really from that episode that really kind of transcended at, um, what was it? It was, uh, The one with Farley and Sandler, right? When they were doing the, the, the food review, they’re doing the, is it Zagats? Is that? 

Yes, Zagat’s is kind of, yeah, that was a big sketch. And then, you know what? Sketch has kind of had some staying power in which also I… 

The 10 to 1. 

Yeah, the 10 to 1, which I also, I think might, I feel like I remember Jimmy Fallon saying at one point that this was his favorite or one of his favorite sketches. I think the two sketches I’ve ever heard him talk about as being his favorite were, yes, this one that we’ll talk about in a second. And then the “What the hell was that one” with Steve Martin and Bill Murray from 79? 

Yeah, I remember Jimmy talking about this one. It’s a 10 to one and it’s, um, and when you say 10 to one, it’s not always 10 to one. It’s that’s with the last sketch. 

It’s like eight to one, five to one. Yeah, 

That’s back then at least what that slot was. 

Yeah, it’s, I mean, it’s a sketch where, yeah, it’s five cast members. They’re all playing themselves. It’s Chris Farley, Adam Sandler, Norm Macdonald, Tim Meadows, Jay Mohr. Um, and they’re at the zoo, the Central Park Zoo, and yeah, I think, I forget exactly what happens, but one of them jumps in to the polar bear cage, and then each subsequent friend tries to go in and rescue the other person, and you know, and they, yeah, they just keep getting more bloodied, and it’s basically just people being stupid, I mean, that’s kind of the idea of the sketch Stupid people at the zoo. Um, and of course it has one of my favorite moments in it, which is Chris Farley saying that polar bear just ripped off Jay Mohr’s head, like so much volleyball! And, uh, I don’t know. I mean, the sketch kind of dies when you watch it, but I just love it. I just think it’s so funny. 

Norm, I think is the last one. I remember it. I just. Yeah, to me the symbolism is all these people are not gonna be asked back on the show and they’re just kind of like… 

But yeah, but none of none of them knew that at the time though, right? 

They didn’t but I you know, I was at the week before I was I I’ll do an episode at some point where explaining on how I was a I was backstage the week before when Saget hosted and I know you have a history with Bob Saget and we’ll talk and I talked to one of the writers and one of the writers was telling me during dress. He was like, there is no possible way that the show is going to be coming back next year with the people that are here. The writers and the cast like this. It’s never going to happen. And that’s when it really hit me. That, wow, it’s going to, I mean, a lot of those people that I thought would maybe continue and stuff are going to disappear. Um, that was what he told me and I was like, Oh, gosh. 

Wow.  The weirdest thing to me about that season of the show is that it just feels like the energy is just never there, but sometimes it feels like the episode just starts out that way. Like it, it almost, 

You know, why?

Why? 

I would say the biggest reason that that season suffered, as opposed to they were still trying to, um, you know, they’d lost so many heavyweights and it was going to take them some rebuilding, is not getting any standbys or very few into the live show. They let 80 people in now. They let 60 to 80 people in for dressing live. Back then, I’m telling you, like you watch a train wreck like, uh, Sarah Jessica Parker and R.E.M., Zero got in, um, that whole season. 

So you think you base your theory then, and I think I agree with it is it’s basically that people who are in the standby line, even though they’ve been waiting, staying up all night to get tickets are just so excited to see the show that they bring a bigger energy to the show.

If you go to the show, if anybody goes to the show, the laughs all come, if you’re sitting in the bleachers, from the worst seats. It’s all the way to the right, and those are primarily the standbys. They are the ones that were not VIP’d into the show, that just have a love for the show, and I’m not saying that all the VIPs don’t. But when I was going to the show, I mean, oh my goodness. Some of the people that were getting in, I would overhear them, and they were not fans, they did not watch the show. And it’s just for those performers to, um, have an audience like that. I mean, um, I have heard like Dana Carvey and I know Rob Schneider and other people said shows were ruined because of some of those audiences. I’m trying to think of like, I remember getting into standby Bob Newhart that year, and I think that they did. I, I was there for live. I think they maybe took 15 of us, but it was, it was really, uh, rare. You look at the Roseanne/Green Day, which was another, uh, not good episode and again, as you were saying, even from the cold open, you feel. They let in a zero standbys for dress or live and you just you feel it from the audience. I mean, it’s just that’s what it is. And they will. The show will never. I don’t think ever let that happen again. I think it was 20 years ago when they said we can’t do this anymore. And that’s when they started to take massive… 

But I guess, I guess we, I guess my question about this is like during the week when they’re making these shows that are kind of met with sort of a dead energy by the live audience. Do you think there is there an energy of excitement? You know, like when they’re reading these sketches for the Roseanne episode that will kind of bomb, like, are they excited at the table read? Like, that’s the thing that I would, 

I, you know what? It’s an excellent, it’s an excellent question. Hmm. 

Because I, I’ve definitely, I mean, I do, I’m a firm believer in the fact that whatever energy you’re internally feeling when you’re creating something is an energy that will be reflected in the audience when they’re receiving it, which, which would lead me to believe that that was a sort of energy that pervaded the show. But then when I’ve read books like Jay Mohr’s, you know, gasping for airtime, um, I mean, I remember if you read that book, I don’t really remember getting much of a sense that either of those years that he was on the show were terrible. It’s like, from that point of view, I remember him talking about people being so excited to see Adam Sandler. And it seemed like maybe there was a lot of energy, but I don’t know. It’s a confusing and interesting couple seasons there. 

I think the people, the audience was excited for Sandler. I just feel like with not having a Phil Hartman or Dana Carvey, it was tough, but there was definitely not the greatest energy in the studio when I got to get into the show. I was very, very fortunate to be able to be in witness a lot of stuff. And I mean, I feel like the best part of that season for the audience laughing is when Norm would come out and do his warmup. Norm would do the warmup and then he would call out Chris Farley and they would do some stuff together.

Oh, I didn’t know that. 

And then Norm’s Update was probably the strongest thing, but like, I always loved the show. It was always a fascinating thing when talking about, um, Bob Saget. I know we’ll talk about him in a little bit, but like when I was there, they did the cold open that week, um, was a dress rehearsal, was the Hank What was it? The Hank Dippity. It’s a Tim Herlihy piece where it’s like Farley and Sandler and it’s Hank and it’s like Farley talks like really, really slow. And then Sandler is talking really fast like this. And it’s like this. They did it on update a couple of times. It’s Hank Dippity or something.  

That’s the one right where Chris Farley goes like, well, I says to the guy and I says to him, I said, yeah, that’s it.

Yes.  And then there’s a buzzer. And they did that as a game show in the cold open and it was like…

That was the cold open? 

Yeah, they did it as a cold open for the dress rehearsal and they did that and it got it did. It did. Okay, but then they moved Sandler’s commentary from update to the cold open for the live show where he was talking to…

Right,  the, the, uh, the Vallencourt thing. Yeah. The Boston Celtics thing. 

Yeah. So it was, it was always interesting. Going to the show, like, um, for example, like the first show you ever really watched with your friends, a dress rehearsal for Sagat, they did that Jay Mohr as a realtor, a former rock star turned realtor. 

Right.  I think he said in his book that they had also done that even a few times before that too, or at least it was, I don’t, yeah, like, and it finally made it on as into that that, uh, 

There were some sketches that season. Ian Maxtone-Graham wrote this piece. I think it finally got in for Courtney Cox. It  was like, I think they did it four or five times a dress where it’s like, it’s Tim Meadows. And I think it’s an office thing or something. And people are like, it Meadows is like keeps denying something. No, that didn’t happen. No, it didn’t happen. And then he’s like, yes, yes. And then he finally says, yes. You know what sketch I’m talking about? 

Oh, yeah. 

And I remember, I, yeah, there was definitely, I remember watching a couple times that, um, do you, did it ever even make air that Farley was doing, um, he did a video audition, a video, um, resume. He did like a, whether he’s singing like, um, Doe a Deer, a Female Deer. I don’t know. 

It doesn’t ring a bell. 

They call him in for the interview and then they’re playing and just making fun of him. But it was, that got me. To dress a couple of times, but, um… 

Yeah, I, I feel like what it was with Farley and Sandler that season is like, I’ve read things about, at Seinfeld, they never really liked to use Kramer too much in an episode. Like they like to kind of temper that a little bit. And like Kramer is a special teams kind of guy. And I feel like I’ve even heard maybe Downey or someone describe some of those cast members as special teams, kind of people like Adam Sandler, David Spade, like, as opposed to a Phil Hartman utility thing. And I just kind of think with your special teams guys coming out on the field and playing the entire game, it’s just, you know, they’re just overexposed a little bit, or it’s like they lose some of their specialness. You don’t want to see them that much, you know? 

It was definitely, um, a disconnect. It was, it was tough, I think, for the newer people, especially. I mean, I feel like the strongest from that season and tell me what you think if we, well, let’s just go show to show. We never get to do this. This would be great to do this season. I’m sure we can do a couple episodes is, um, we start out and I was there for this one. It was Steve Martin and for me personally, that cold open, I was so being there was so excited for the season. I was like, they’re back because they do that whole Clinton audition thing, which was so funny where all the cast members that was, yeah, that one. And then the Steve Martin commercial was really, really funny. Those two things. What did you think of that episode? Do you remember? 

Yeah, I remember those two things sticking out. But, and then a few sketches where that just felt like. Emblematic of what the season was like there was that 

They die. 

Yeah, there’s that one that’s like an advertising group or something You know some kind of…

Nut-Rific. 

Nut-Rific. . That’s what it was, and just almost like too many people in the sketch and just like too thin of a premise or something. 

That was the sketch that I was like, this season is  in trouble and You know anybody that gets hired at that show It’s a huge accomplishment, but the person that wrote that sketch put that in his sketch packet that season was hired on that sketch, um, is one of the things. So the, the head people were, like, read Nut-Rific and like, we have to hire this guy. And I’m so sorry. He’s been, he’s very successful. Uh, very, very successful. 

It’s so funny. Cause I feel like that sketch, I feel like there are certain sketches that are emblematic of an entire season or at least of an episode, and that’s almost one that I’m like… 

That is the season. That sketch is the whole, is the season. 

That sketch is the season and, and that’s not even a total disparagement of it. It’s, I feel like a lot of sketches in that season are sketches that on paper I’m like, oh yeah, this would be funny. And then you see it on its feet and it’s just like, I don’t know. Energy is just not there. 

That was a rough episode other than the cold open. 

Yeah. 

That Steve Martin commercial. I just remember being so, um, I mean, I was excited to be there and stuff and Norm’s first update and all that stuff. But I was just like, Oh goodness, please. 

By the way, you should do, you should do a full episode of just you solo, just recollecting your experiences at  the show, because I’ve, I’ve heard you talk about them on here and they’re all really interesting. And like…

At some point that’s very, very nice, 

but you really should like any time anyone goes to see the show, you, you come away with a few stories. Like the first show I ever saw in person. I was just a week away from turning 21 and it was Johnny Knoxville hosted the episode. So it was like 2005. And the main, there’s a couple things I remember from it, but one thing was that I was one of like about 10 people let into the standby group. You know, we waited all night. 

This is for dress or for air? 

This is for air. Wow. Um, I think we got to choose whether we did dress or error and I knew how excited I would be to see a dress rehearsal of SNL ’cause you would get more stuff. But I was like. This might be the only time I’ll ever see the show live, who knows? So I’m just gonna like, go for it. And I remember it was Jason Sudeikis’ first episode, uh, formally as a featured player. Um, it was the third to last episode of the season, May 7th, 2005, musical guest system of a down. And I, I recognized him cause I was a huge SNL fan. So I would see him in the monologue, you know, cause they would have writers be audience plants and stuff. So he’s about to go out there for his very first sketch on the show. It’s the first sketch after Update and he’s taking his place. 

Can I ask you real quick? Is he a waiter? That’s my recollection. I’m probably completely wrong. Is it a restaurant sketch? 

It’s a restaurant sketch. He is, um, it’s like a Mother’s Day thing. So he and someone who plays his brother, maybe Rob Riggle, I want to say, are like out with their, their mom. 

Is that what it is? I just remember a restaurant. Please continue. 

Yes, no, you’re right. Yeah, it was that restaurant sketch. And during the commercial break, he he’s like looking around the studio, just taking it all in. And he and I, for the briefest moment, make eye contact. I’m looking down at him from that top area of the bleachers that you were describing. And I give him like a double thumbs up and I’m smiling and he just looks back up at me so confused as to like, why anyone would know who he is, you know, it was my interpretation of it. So he just gave me this quick look of wha? And then he like went on with the sketch and then the other thing I remember was I took my phone out at one point during a commercial, very like covertly and my phone was on mute and everything. I just took it out just to like really quickly check the time. And I was so subtle about it. And this again, during the commercial break, and then suddenly a security guard comes over to me. And just goes, what the f*ck did you just do? And I go, oh, I was checking. I was checking that. And he goes, you do that again. I’ll beat the f*cking sh*t out of you, and like, I was so scared for the rest of the episode.

So you go to the show who was doing warmup at the time? 

Um, you know what? We were brought in there very soon before the show. So I actually, yeah, I don’t. I had been to later shows, including, by the way, the second Donald Trump show. Um, so I’ve seen other warmups, but, uh, that one we just, I think Don Pardo at the very end, maybe.

That is a really good point. And, um, yes, people, when they would do dress rehearsals, sometimes would, would get up there, um, very, very late in the game. And, um, it was one of those things where, I mean, there was so much tension down in the lobby. I mean, it was one of those things where you had the page desk, um, phone would ring and it’d be like, yes, and it would be how many people they were gonna take up. And these are some of these people are out of town. I mean, were you from out of town from Illinois at the time? Or were you from Boston from college or from, um, where you grew up in Illinois when you saw the show? 

I was a junior at Boston University. So my friend and I took…

Okay. So you’re coming from Boston. Okay, but these are people all over the place that are just want to see the show. And I was there. I would always be able to get up myself up. I was very fortunate, but there would be I saw it so many times. They’re like, we can’t take anybody for dress and just like, Oh, my goodness. Wow. Oh, wait a minute. For those people. Oh, it’s terrible. 

You know, what was one of the coolest things was when I was at Fallon, there was a guy who worked there, um, who worked also at SNL and he, John, he gave, yeah, John McDonald. And he gave me, um, access to like the SNL server with all the old dress rehearsals on it going back to like 1985.

Yeah, John McDonald. Good guy. I haven’t talked to him for a while. 

Yeah, he’s a good dude. 

That’s who I kind of figured it was. That must have been amazing to go back and watch some of those dresses. I mean, I would go back and watch the most fascinating thing to me and the sketches don’t bomb anymore because they have the standbys and they just almost never tank. And seeing like the first sketch after a monologue sometimes When they just do not do well and then I want to go and watch the dress and be like people really laugh at this and inevitably they had to. I mean, I’m sure it did. 

Yeah, no, I remember there’s there’s one specifically. I remember maybe hearing came up in an interview or something, but it was. I feel like it was maybe an Adam McKay sketch or something. And I think it was the Rob Lowe episode from 97. And it’s something about a doctor’s office and a sandwich. And I can’t remember, I wish I could remember the premise better, but I do remember it was like the first sketch in dress rehearsal, first sketch after the monologue, and it just completely died. And it was the sort of sketch where you’re like, If the audience was on the side of the sketch from the beginning, I could see it killing, but there was nothing in the sketch that won them over. So yeah, it is fascinating to go back to old episodes and see how they switched around the lineup or just watch like now classic sketches and see them do like mediocre at dress like good enough to stay in the show. 

I could be off on this. I just remember the Bob Saget dress. It was one of the last sketches. It might have been the last of the night where they did that whole thing with Bob Saget as this is a coach. Was he a high school track coach or something about that?

Yeah. 

My recollection. It was one of the last sketches of the night, and then they moved it up because it did the best. But for something like that, the last sketch of the night to be moved up and to get laughs is extremely rare, and it’s extremely hard. Famously Molly Shannon when she did Mary Katherine Gallagher with Gabriel Byrne. That was the last sketch of dress because when I would go to the dress, the last sketch, almost always when I saw it, the energy was just, oh, it was, it usually just never did well. Wow. But for Molly, for something like that to actually do well, it’s just a testament of her ability. And, you know, just once in a while, I guess if the energy is is strong enough.

I believe that the, um, the Kate McKinnon Close Encounters sketch, the first time that they did that, I don’t know where it was in the lineup of the show, but I do remember hearing something about, like, it was the very last sketch at table or something. 

That is extremely hard. I remember when I was at Will Ferrell’s first show and Cheri Oteri and the, the audience still didn’t under get who Will Ferrell was in the, 

You were at that show?

Oh yeah. I can tell you I can, I was at Dress and Live. I can tell you I could do a, a, a few episodes about what I witnessed in everything that I saw. I mean, it was, it was pretty wild. 

Wow. 

The last sketch they did at Dress was Will is Aquaman. It was a Dennis McNicholas piece and he was just a Aquaman being a jerk.

Oh yeah. Was  he like at a restaurant  or something? 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. He was kind of a jerk and, um, it just, I just, nothing, I mean, it was just, it was so hard for those audience members to be there and see all these people, they did not know who they were, um, these six new people, even the Breuer, Breuer was in one, he had his own sketch address that did not, it got nothing and that didn’t make the air.

What was that one? 

It was the sketch where he’s in a store and I think it’s got the he called he he’s talked about it before I think it’s he calls it the shut up guy. 

oh yeah. 

I think it eventually made it but oh my goodness, yeah it just complete silence I mean that There were a couple of sketches that didn’t do well, and I think I’ve talked about it was the Cheri Oteri, Donna, she did a sketch of the Groundlings where she played, it was a prom, they moved it to the show number two with Chevy Chase the following week, but that tanked, um, pretty hard to dress.

I sort of personally think that that whole season was actually one of the better ones in the history of SNL.

In terms of the writing. In terms of they were writing, I would agree. And then the next season after that, some of those pieces like the, the blame game, which was a Colin Quinn piece, which was really funny. A lot of those, you didn’t see pieces as much the following season. 

I agree. Yeah. It felt like that next season, they started really leaning into their recurring characters and stuff. 

Oh, it was Groundlings. It was basically, it was just a Groundlings blueprint. 

Very Groundlings. 

It’s just different. 

Yeah. 

And you still had that, that season with Steve Koren and you still had Fred Wolf. Um, still had some of the people that were writing sketches. 

Yeah, you had a good, good crossover. 

I have to  ask you, did you ever meet Jim Downey? Cause you guys are from the same place, right? In Illinois. 

Oh, you know what? I know he’s from Illinois, but I forget where he’s from there. 

Oh, he’s from Joliet, I think. And you’re from where? 

Yes, he’s from Joliet. I’m from Wilmette, which is where Bill Murray, Bill Murray is from. And I went to high school with Beck Bennett and Fran Gillespie, who wrote at the show. 

Wow. Of course. Did you talk to, um, did you ever met Murray and talk to him about this? 

Okay. Yeah. So I have a, I have a funny Bill Murray and a funny James Downey thing. The Bill Murray thing. So actually when I’ll start with the Jim Downey thing. Um, the Jim Downey thing was Jimmy was invited to speak or he was like the guest of honor at some Harvard Hasty pudding or something. Some award that they get that they’ve only given to like 10 comedians ever. But Jimmy was being honored.This is like 2015, I think. Yeah. And, uh, we got to go inside this like, you know, mysterious Harvard castle where they do all their writing at the Lampoon. And it’s supposed to be really kept under wraps and stuff. And it was such a cool night because Jim Downey was there at some point, Jim showed up, everyone was wearing like, suits or tuxedos or something. And I just went up to Jim and I was like, you know, I think you’re such an influential sketch writer to me. Thank you. And somehow we got on the topic of his old Hercules sketch that he wrote for the Bill Murray episode, the Bill Murray, Percy Sledge one from ‘87. And he was able to quote back verbatim that entire sketch word for word. And it didn’t feel like a thing of like that he was super into himself. It just feels like, oh, this is the kind of like brain that this guy has. Um, and I just remember it was such a thrill to talk to him. And then the Bill Murray thing, and I don’t even know if I’ve told you this, Mark, but I bet you’ll, you might find this interesting. Or maybe I have told you this. I was at the. Maybe, yeah, I was at the 40th SNL show, because I had helped Jimmy work on his, like, write his opening sketch that he did with Justin Timberlake for the show. 

Yes, you were at Fallon at that point. You were a writer at Jimmy Fallon for, you were there for seven years?

Yeah, and at that point I had been there for three years, and Jimmy was well aware of how obsessed with SNL I was, so because he, I think all he knew was that his opening sketch, he wanted it to somehow be very heavily about the history of the show. So I was invited in to help him. And, uh, it was a couple other writers, Mike DiCenzo, who now writes for SNL was there, Gerard Bradford, A. D. Miles, uh, me, Jimmy. And I was sitting across from Justin Timberlake and next to Paula Pell. And I remember being starstruck by Paula Pell, uh, more so than Justin Timberlake, but it was a great energy in the room. I maybe contributed two lines to that sketch. And, uh, and then Steve Higgins invited me to be a seat filler for the 40th anniversary. I was like, “Yes, of course, of course I’ll do that.” Uh, and then I went to the party afterwards and at one point in this must’ve been like three, at least three in the morning or something, I see Bill Murray sitting at a table and I’m like, I know he’s not, you know, it’s considered the warmest person, but I’m like, we’re from the same town. We’re both huge Chicago Cubs fans. So I went up to him and I was like, Excuse me, Bill. I’m so like, he also looked like he was in a conversation. He didn’t really want to be in. So I kind of like, I was like, excuse me, Bill. I’m so sorry. I just want to say I’m from Wilmette. I’m a huge Cubs fan. And I think you’re so funny. And he looked at me and he just goes “Here, follow me.” And we’re like walking through different rooms and past all these people, some of whom are trying to like flag him down. And he just leads me to the dance floor and starts dancing. 

Did he talk to you about Illinois at all, or not really, or? 

No, he didn’t talk. He just, he was really nice about that, and then I think he just kind of felt like, you know. Let’s… I’m going to be nice to this guy and have him join me on the dance floor. And yeah, so that, that was, but I’m sure he probably did. I’m sure he didn’t feel like being in a conversation with someone who was just going to gush over him, which is what I spent most of the night doing. I mean, I went up to, here’s another crazy story is. My best friend, Dan Klein, who’s a great comedy writer, who’s written for a bunch of shows, and he lives out in LA. He and I met each other our freshman year of BU. Jim Breuer and Tracy Morgan were doing a standup show at BU. And Dan and I both got in line like four hours early, assuming that there would be a huge line. We were the first two people there. And it dawned on us like 10 minutes in that like no one was going to come for another couple hours. So that was how we started talking to each other. And we ended up becoming best friends. And we sat in the front row of that concert and it was amazing. So cut to 12 years later, it’s the SNL 40th and I see Jim Breuer backstage at the party and I go up to him and I’m like, excuse me, Jim. And I told him that story. I’m like, I met my best friend being in line at one of your concerts and he just was like, you know, reacted as you would imagine Jim Brewer would he was just like, “Oh my God, dude, that’s f*cking insane. Like it was so cool. 

I’m really glad that you got that. Yeah, he was always very nice when I was over there.

He  was. Yeah, I think he’s really funny. I mean, obviously he’s one of those that weird breed of SNL cast members that has taken like a hard right political turn. But I’ll I’ll stand by and saying that I think he’s very, very funny. 

It’s one of those things with Breuer and he’s talked about it a little bit is, um, feel like, um, you know, Seth Meyers was saying the best advice he got from Mike Shoemaker, uh, was when you’re upset with somebody at the show, just don’t say anything and you’ll probably be at their wedding in like 10 years or whatever. And… 

Right. 

There’s, I mean, Lorne Michaels has basically said almost everybody there that’s a cast member and probably a writer has a case why it is, it isn’t fair. Like every week things aren’t fair and that’s just how it is. But definitely, I think, you know, I know he had a problem with Chris Kattan and he was very vocal about it. And I know, um, he’s, he’s mentioned Adam McKay got in the mix and when Adam McKay is the head writer, somebody that you, you just don’t want to upset them, or I feel he probably would have stayed a little bit longer if that didn’t happen. Didn’t happen. 

I think so too. And I feel like I’ve heard him talk about that. And you know, you just at these places. I mean, this is certainly my experience at Fallon where sometimes you would get so emotionally invested in stuff because you’re putting time into it. And when you’re doing comedy, your identity is intertwined with the work that you do. So it’s not just am I doing good or bad at my job. It feels like it’s a comment on, on you as a person. So there are things now that I cared so much about when I was a writer at Fallon that now I look back on it and I’m just like, that wasn’t that big of a deal. Why did I allow there to be, you know, this tension and stuff? You know, it just didn’t need to happen. But like you, you, when you’re in it, it’s harder to see it, you know? 

I was talking to a former SNL person and they were telling me it was years later and they were all together and I can’t believe we overreacted so much on so many things. And…  

So many overreactions. Yeah…

It’s definitely tough. And, um, you know, it was tough. I think also because, um, and Adam McKay’s talked about this before he, I mean, he said, I had, you know, yes, they asked me if what I thought about Breuer and he definitely, you know, said, you know, he had a good run and. But McKay’s whole position was I had nothing to do. I mean, it’s Lorne’s show, but at the same time, the reason that they went around the room is, I mean, allegedly Breuer’s manager, um, Barry Katz said that he got a phone call from Lorne and said it was the hard, one of the hardest decisions to not have Jim come back, but he couldn’t get the support of the right in room. That’s what, what Lorne said. And, um, I mean, Breuer was one of those people, he would admit it. And like a lot of people, there are people over there, Breuer could not write sketch comedy. He’s, he said that before, once Fred Wolf and Steve Koren left, he said, he just, it was tough. I mean, Hugh Fink wrote some really funny stuff for him. Steve Koren saved him with the Joe Pesci. I was there the first time he did it at dress and I was like, wow. 

Oh, I didn’t realize. I mean, I assumed that there was another writer on it. I don’t think I knew who the writer was, but that’s, that’s, that’s, 

Oh, Steve Koren saved his complete SNL career. I was there for Anthony Edwards and was it Foo Fighters? Um, in December of that year. And I was like, Oh, wow. I mean, that was the first thing I saw him do. Um, he did an update commentary, which did well, but I mean, Breuer would get the biggest laughs of anybody at the warmup. He would do the warmup and get. Um, with his stand up. 

It feels like SNL has always had someone who’s like one of those funniest person in the room kind of guys. Like, you know, you imagine that Chris Farley also is probably not the best sketch writer. 

Oh, he couldn’t do it. Belushi. I mean, there’s so most of the cast can’t. Yeah, it’s a very specialized skill. 

There are cast members who are writers and, you know, have an author vibe to them. You think of someone like Will Forte. Or, uh, Fred Armisen or something. And then there are cast members who are just extremely funny. And if you just have a writer there who knows how to channel their talents, you know, then it works out. 

I think so. I mean, Steve koren was really good at that with Molly Shannon with Mary Katherine Gallagher. I mean, she had the character.

Yeah.

It’s just putting that some sort of structure together and, um, and getting two people in together that really vibe 

Totally. 

That was definitely, um, that whole season. Um with with the new cast was interesting just seeing the progression Of it, but I thought that they did some really, really funny sketches like that elevator… the David Schwimmer show. I was there for the dress as well. Love that sketch elevator thing. I think that was Steve Koren as well. Sketches like that. They would not get in the season after the season after that, especially early on in the show. They were not doing sketches like that. It just it was just a completely different approach to sketch comedy writing or the stuff that was getting on.

Yeah, I think I have such a soft spot in my heart for that approach to sketch comedy rather than I feel like obviously Tina Fey is incredible, but I her era of SNL when she was head writer was not my favorite era because it kind of felt like just about every sketch was like this person hosting this talk show or this character… so many shows being hosted in so many, like, countless parodies of, like, MTV and VH1 that I just don’t care about. Like I, I think Downey might’ve even talked about it in one of the books where he’s like, those things already are parodies of themselves. Like they know those shows know that they’re stupid. You know, we don’t need SNL to point it out. You know?

I remember talking to Smigel and I hope he’s okay with me saying this, where it was that thing where it’s like, you knew it was going to be a Wayne’s World thing, where they would so much to the show was just people looking into the camera, hosting something. And it was just. It was extremely predictable. That’s why I always said when, um, Sylvester Stallone came to host the show and that sketch, I think it was right after the monologue or close when they did that whole car accident thing with Norm Macdonald wrote that with Adam McKay. It was, um, making fun of the Stallones just being in bad movies and Norm… he hits Norm or he’s trying to save norm from like a car wreck and stuff. And it was such a funny concept piece. And those are the type of things that we’re not. Traditionally getting on the show at the time and I’d once in a while it would happen and I’d be shocked. 

Those are so many of the sketches that I look back on when I think of like my favorite SNL sketches. I mean, sometimes there’s one of those. There’s like a show sketch like I think of like the Hulk Hogan talk show sketch, but like, 

Oh, that was very funny. I remember I was there for that one too. Yeah. 

Yeah, that’s also was the Anthony Edwards episode, but even, even a sketch like that, it’s not really like I’m a character I’m hosting. Like, that’s kind of a conceptual idea. I mean, it’s so funny. It’s, it’s the Hulk Hogan talk show. And there’s like a one minute opening intro song. It’s the Hulk Hogan talk show. And it’s just so complicated. And then it just cuts to Will Ferrell. And he goes, Hulk Hogan is on vacation. I’m your guest host, Phil Tobin. 

That was either Colin Quinn or Adam McKay. I forget who wrote that. You might know.

I think it was McKay. And part of the reason I think so is because one of the names in that sketch is Dr. Neil Flynn. And I think Neil Flynn was in an improv thing with Adam McKay in Chicago.  

Yeah, he was a Chicago Second City guy. I saw him perform at the ETC, and then he went on to do, um, Scrubs, right? I never really watched the show, but he was on Scrubs. 

I didn’t  either, but yeah, he was totally on there. 

Yeah, Neil Flynn’s a very funny man, so yeah, you’re right. You could tell sometimes. I remember, by the way, like David Spade, when he would write, there was somebody, um, I knew somebody, I was friends with somebody, of a brother that Spade, and he would, sometimes he would throw in somebody’s name, and I could be like, oh, I knew that Spade had something to do with this.

Wow. 

Yeah. They would throw in, um, certain names. 

That’s so cool. 

Your favorite show of all time was the Michael Jordan, uh, Public Enemy. Yeah. See, this is, it’s very rare for somebody, um, a little bit younger your age. Cause normally they always gravitate to whatever they watched the show in high school and they do not know any of the other cast previously. So the whole thing about whatever people watch in high school is their favorite cast because they don’t know the other casts. But in terms of, of tha  episode. Uh, it was very, very strong. What about that show got you, um, really affected you so much? 

Oh, that’s such a good question. I just feel like it was one of those shows where everything was, was working. I, I don’t, you know, it, um, there were so many great sketches from that episode, some of which are now considered classics. Like you had your Daily Affirmations with Stuart Smalley, the one with Michael Jordan. 

That was  the. Best one. That was, even Tom, Tom Davis told me he, he hated Stuart Smalley, but that thing was, that was the one. 

Wow. 

Tom, Tom was like, that was genius. And it was, in terms of, of that, I thought that that was just an unbelievable, uh, that sketch. 

That was unbelievable. And then they had the, uh, super fans that sketch is probably the best installment of that. I possibly, I mean, it’s the one where Chris Farley does his dance at the end and.. 

Smigel all over the place.

I mean, Smigel, Smigel’s all over that episode. Um, even in bits that you can’t tell if he wrote it or not, like the first black Harlem globetrotter, like, Was that a Smigel? It feels like it. 

That was Smigel, and then Schmitz Gay. I know Smigel at least. 

Yeah, Schmitz Gay. Which, yeah, Schmitz Gay, like, so those are like four classic sketches. And I would say the first Black Harlem Globetrotter, that’s, that’s even like an under the radar classic. But, you know, they used to rerun it on the sports episode, the sports extras episodes they would do. But then on top of that, you have like a great monologue from Michael Jordan, where they’re showing a few, uh, commercials that he did for like, you know, a Feminine hygiene product and 

It was great. The whole joke was that he would do he was doing underwear commercial. I mean, it was basically these are some things I actually said no to and yeah, they did some pre-tapes and it absolutely killed. 

It just felt like a great instance of writing for a host really well. Like I think that they I love when SNL can figure out how to write for hosts. So much of my job at Fallon is, would be like you would write stuff for guests and just be like, well, what are they? Really? How do you want to see? How do you want to see this person? And with Michael Jordan, it’s like, he’s not going to be able to do any comedic heavy lifting, but he can totally play himself in a sketch. You can totally shoot a thing where it’s a commercial. And he’s familiar with how commercials are. And it’s like, I just think that it was an expertly written episode. And then on top of that, Uh, Public Enemy was great. They did Can’t Trust It, which was an amazing performance. And then, and probably one of my all time favorite musical performances on the show. And then they had Reverend Jesse Jackson on Weekend Update, reading Green Eggs and Ham. Like, it’s like, there’s like, there were like eight things in that episode that are like perfect. 

In terms of music, that was Miles Davis, right? That they did that kind of like a little tribute. 

Yeah, well, Miles Davis had, yes, he had just died. So they did, they had a moment of silence for him. 

I want to also mention that the cold open, the Wayne’s World, Wayne’s World opened, killed. And again, the thing about Wayne’s World that I really liked how it evolved, is it became a device for the most part topical humor. And you’re watching a sketch you might have seen before, but the writing was very fresh and funny. And the topic, which is the audience was in a frenzy. On that cold. Oh, yeah, just the whole show the only sketch. I really am having trouble remembering was uh Tales from the barbecue. They did that. I don’t know  

Yeah, that one. I don’t even remember that. Well, but like I even just thinking about it. It’s kind of funny. Like, I always love Tim Meadows. He plays a grandpa and he’s tell he’s barbecuing 

They did it a couple times.  

Yeah, that. Yeah. And it’s You know, there’s something that tickles me about it, even though, yeah, I can’t remember that one super well. 

Yeah, but they did Nat X. It was a really, really solid show. 

Oh, right,  NatX. Yeah, Ellen Cleghorne’s first show. Yeah. 

I feel like that season, the actor, uh, Topher Grace wrote a piece or did something where he said he thought that that season was the best in the history of the show. And I, in terms of the writing, if we go show to show, I mean, it was, it was an amazing, I mean, that was the season where they did the Steve Martin cold open that the whole Broadway number, 

Which is my all time favorite SNL sketch. 

Yes, and you get to, and you wrote a piece for Steve Martin for Fallon a Song, which we’ll talk about in a little bit, but the Macaulay Culkin cold open was so funny when they did that Home Alone. 

Yeah, that piece is great. 

Massive Head Wound Harry was that season. 

Yes, so many, so many sketches in that season had, I feel like every season has like a flavor to it or something and a sketch like that feels like the 91-92 season. Like a sketch like Another one from that season that really feels like that season Is a Stand Up and Win from the Jerry Seinfeld episode.

That episode was one of the best episodes they ever did.

I agree I agree. That’s another great episode. Yeah. I used to kind of go back and forth between whether that was the best season of SNL or the following season, which I also thought was really good. But I mean, just some of those sketches from 91, 92 or so just sharp and…

Yeah. 92, 93 has some great ones too. I, the Jerry Seinfeld thing, that whole, um, Elijah the prophet. 

Yeah. That’s a great one.  The, the, uh, Jerry in the Classroom is like, 

Oh man, the Turners wrote that, that, that is, that to me is like a lesson in sketch comedy writing. I mean, it’s such a brilliant sketch. 

Yeah, totally. 

And I remember the cold open. I don’t, it was definitely a Clinton cold open, I think with Jerry Brown. 

Yeah, Dana Carvey is Jerry, Jerry Brown. 

This is okay. This is my recollection going a long time ago. And I don’t know if this is this is the conversation I had talked to one of somebody who was on the writing for that sketch. And I would never have guessed that these three people wrote that sketch. I would have said Al Franken and 

Yeah, that’s my assumption.

Here’s who I was told wrote it: Ian Maxton-Graham, Rob Schneider, Jack Handey are the three that I was told. Which I don’t, I have to email Smigel and be like, can you look this up on the database to see if this is accurate? But I’m not going to mention, but one of those three people told me that the three of them worked on it. 

I would be. I would be so curious to get a list of sketches that Jack Handey wrote that don’t obviously seem like Jack Handey sketches because I feel like so many sketches from that era. You can tell that they were Jack Handey sketches like and there aren’t a ton of writers at SNL. that have that where you’re like, Oh, this is a Jack Handey one, but a Jack Handey sketch. You would know if it was a Jack Handey sketch, but he was like a head writer of the show, wasn’t he? And like a… 

He was a producer for, um, yeah, he was a head. He was there for a producer credit. And, um, I just loved the fact that he would not do topical stuff for the most part. He, 

Me too. 

He wrote that killer Kirstie Alley, um, Tom Petty, the cold open, where it’s like, Chris Rock says it’s the only time he gets to say live from New York it’s Saturday night. And it’s the whole Anita Hill. hearing. Um, and Jack Handey wrote that, um, cold open and it’s all the senators. 

Oh, right. Yes. From 91. Yes. Oh, Jack Handy wrote that. Yeah. I would have been certain that that was Al Franken, but, uh, wow, that’s amazing.  

Oh, I, I, I thought for sure it would have been Franken and, um, it would have been Franken.

Downey, right? 

Yeah. Um, once in a while. 

Here’s a funny, I just, just so I, I want to make sure I, I tell the story when I was, uh, work, wrote, I wrote a sketch for Steve Martin on Fallon. And, um, you know, at one point, because the sketch that we were doing, I would say it wasn’t my idea, but it was definitely kind of reminiscent of  that amazing cold open, the “Not Going to Phone it in Tonight” sketch. And the sketch that we were doing with Steve involved a pre-tape and at one point there was like five minutes of downtime where we had to move to like a new location within the building. And uh, so it was just Steve was just sitting there. He didn’t really have anything to do. He was just sitting there and he, you know, we had been talking already because I was the writer working on it. And I went up to him and I was just like, and I even already kind of knew that he’s not a big fan of like talking about his stuff or people gushing over him. But I felt comfortable enough to do it because I wrote the piece. I was like, Oh, by the way, I just want to tell you that, um, my all time favorite SNL sketch, which I’ve seen at least 200 times is the “Not Going to Phone it in Tonight” song. And Steve Martin was like, he seemed a little and I’m like, yeah, the one where you’re like singing with the gas and he’s like, “Oh, yes. Yes I I know I don’t really ever go back and watch things I’ve done.” His only time ever seeing that sketch was when he was in it. 

That was such an amazing sketch and what so what was that? Like I’ve only met Steve Martin once and he was well, I’ve been around him a couple other times But the one time I really had a conversation. He was extremely uh, nice to me, but just the fact that you, what’s the process? Do you email his representative this sketch and be like, do you want to work on this? Or is it somebody at the talent department at Fallon take care of that and pitch it to him? Or how, how does that work? 

The way it works at the show is you pitch sketch ideas to, you know, the Uh, for if a guest is coming in, you’ll pitch ideas to the head writer or the supervising writer, which eventually I, I did that at Fallon for my last 3 years there. I was a supervising writer and then they’ll put a list together of ideas that goes into Jimmy and Jimmy will pick  1 or 2 or 3 or whatever that that is someone from the talent department will then send to the representatives of the guest. And then the guest rep will show the ideas them and then you’ll either be like, yeah, they want to do this or they’re, or they’re up for either one. It’s your call. I think that was the only idea that was pitched to Steve Martin for that appearance that he did. And he pretty quickly said yes to it. What I remember about him vividly is that he was the most prepared guest that we ever had in the history of that show, at least that I ever saw. Like he, here’s what I remember. The sketch had a pre tape element to it and a live element. The pre tape element was going to tape on a Friday and the live element was going to be for his appearance on the show, which is going to be three days later on Monday. Uh, it was like that Tuesday of that week. So three days before the pre tape, I’m just doing my regular work in the morning. And Steve’s in Maria Pope, who used to work at Letterman, who is, uh, the segment producer for Steve, right? Uh, because she had now moved to Fallon. She was like, uh, do you have a few minutes? Steve wants to talk to, to you, to the writer. I mean, it wasn’t like Steve wants to talk to Arthur. It was like Steve wants to talk to whoever wrote the sketch. And it was like a Tuesday morning at like 11 a. m. I dropped everything I did, you know, gave them a call as soon as possible, you know, and then next thing you know, I’m talking with Steve. It’s just me and him on the phone. And it’s, there’s a whole, it’s a whole song. The whole song, the idea of the sketch is, That he’s done so many talk show appearances over the years that he’s out of anecdotes. He has nothing left to talk about. So the song is like, I don’t want to do the show. Um, and he was asking me how to, how the melody was going and I’d sang it for him. And he goes, Oh, you know, I was kind of thinking it would maybe go a little bit more like. This, uh, and he’s saying it and I was like, yeah, that’s great. And he goes, but you know, hearing you sing it, I think I like your way a little better. Like that was the other amazing thing about him was he had no ego in it, at least not that I could tell. Like his only concern was being as prepared as he could for the piece and making it as funny as he possibly could. And it was just extremely unusual for a guest to, to do anything like even a day before, because they’re just on these press tours, just promoting their stuff. So, like, it would be rare for a guest to even want to be prepared by, like, a single day, let alone three days. And then he shows up a half hour early on the day of the shoot. And he meticulously goes over the entire song with me. And then during the shooting of the pre tape, he’s totally open to any ideas I have. He’s constantly asking, like, was that okay? Like he really, he, he did not want anyone to stroke his ego. He just wanted it to be the best that it could be. And then for the live show. You know, he just nailed that. But it’s just, you know, you feel so out of place saying anything to Steve Martin, but just because he wants it that much, uh, you are inclined to give it to him. And that was like, that was what I learned from a lot of my comedy idols at Fallon. They would all be really cool people. So like I wrote a sketch for Dana Carvey and Robert Smigel. Robert Smigel was in the sketch. And I remember asking my friend, Michael Koman, who’s a former Conan writer. I was like, Koman had worked with Koman had worked with, uh, sorry, with Smigel a bunch before. And I said to Koman, you know, what should I expect from Robert Smigel? And he goes, he’s everything you want him to be and more. And that was exactly what it was, he was so easy to talk to at one point. I said, uh, like when I first saw him, I was like, Oh my God, you, you, you did Hank Fielding. Um, like as a joke, because it was, it was a character that he did like twice on the show that I doubt anyone except a rabid SNL fan would remember. And he laughed at that. He was embarrassed. And then working with him. He also was just intent on making the sketch as funny as possible. And I remember the most exciting moment for me was at one point there was like a line that we were going to rewrite because it just didn’t feel quite funny enough. And we needed to think of a specific name. Uh, like of a famous person. And I said, Pete . I was like, what about Pete Buttigieg? And Smigel looks at me and he was like, I was just about to say Pete Buttigieg. And I remember like, that is the coolest thing that I had, like a little mind meld with this guy 

What was the piece that you wrote for him and Carvey?

It was a piece called Legends, which I’m sure it’s probably on YouTube if you looked at it, but it’s basically, I think it was initially conceived for Adam Sandler. Uh, it was kind of that, Oh, you are, you are, you know, that kind of, you know, that Smigel Sandler. Oh no, no, no. Oh, and it was kind of like Jimmy and it was going to be Jimmy and Sandler going back and forth saying, Oh, you are the legend. You, You eat skittles and poop rainbows, and then you eat those rainbows and poop skittles, and then you eat those skittles and poop poop, and just like basically constantly complimenting the other person on how much of a legend they are. Sandler was going to do it, but then passed, uh, Justin Timberlake was going to do it, but then he got sick the day before the show, and he lost his voice. And then we pitched it to Dana Carvey, who did, uh, do it. The sketch didn’t quite turn out like I wanted to. Like, I think that there were some, it’s, it’s not, it’s, it’s fine. I would say it’s passable. Um, but I remember shooting it. It was like 16 minutes. The sketch on paper was probably five minutes. When we did the sketch in the studio that day, there was so much improv and ad-libbing that it was 16 minutes long.But Smigel was in it. It was amazing. 

What, for example, like the Steve Martin piece that you wrote, the music piece, did Steve Martin want to want to see that and give edit notes? Or was he just like, I’m going to film this and then you all do whatever you want with the piece? 

Yeah, I don’t think he had any edit notes. I think he was just, he did it. And, uh, I mean, I think I went up to him in his dressing room afterwards and I said, great job with that. And he said, thank you. And he was like, you know, just make sure that it looks okay in the edit. So I think he just, and I do remember he was a little bit disappointed with, I remember he thought, and I think rightfully so, it actually was a bad audience that night. Uh, so he was like, they should have been laughing more. I mean, they, they laughed fine at it, but I remember he was like, I’ll trust you on this, you know.

Some of those audiences. Oh my, cause I mean, I used to, when I worked in late night, I was in the audience department for some of it. The studio audiences would have no idea. And they’d be bad even before the host came out, their energy from the get go. It’s just, they have no idea how much that would hurt the host and the energy and the performers and stuff. 

Oh, totally. Yeah. It’s, it’s palpable. 

Did that happen that much at Fallon with you get a bad audience? 

No, actually not much. I, I kind of feel like the show had a sort of safety net aspect to it of just like, you know, there’s going to be jokes in the monologue that hit certain rhythms that are kind of guaranteed to get laughs, like whether or not they’re actually that funny, you know, like, uh, I feel like it was pretty rare that we would have bad audiences, although. I remember once the person who was supposed to do warm up for… because we would do monologue rehearsals with like an audience. It was about a third of the size of the full studio audience. Uh, so Jimmy would run through the, you know, like a monologue that was about 1. 5 times the size of the final monologue. And yeah, so for rehearsal one day, the usual warm up person was sick and I was asked to fill in and that was the. The deadest the audience was ever. I did such a bad job warming up the audience.  

Seth Herzog had been doing that though for years and he had it down where he could do it in his sleep and he knew the beats to hit without, I mean, he could phone that thing in and it would work, but it’s one of those things where that warm up when somebody started in fresh, it takes them a while to get there.

Yeah. I never understood how hard it was until, until I did that. I did do it one other time when Jimmy was just running late to the studio. So they just needed me to just, they needed someone to do something for like 10 minutes. And so I just was kind of talking off the top of my head. That one actually went really well. But, yeah. But yeah, no, I mean, the funnier one was definitely when I completely sapped the audience with their energy, and I don’t even remember what I did. I just remember, like, it was noticeable. Like, Jimmy, in the rehearsal, turned to some people on the side, and was just like,  What is going on? 

That was only for the monologue rehearsal, though.That wasn’t for the actual show, though, right? 

No, I mean, sometimes they would do a sketch, like if there was a sketch that involved I think a lot of political sketches that they would do at the show, they would, they would actually tape those in front of the monologue rehearsal audience, but then air, but then show it to the live audience. Um, so sometimes they would do that with sketches on the show or like anything that was super elaborate and involved, they would do that because it would just take too long to like, set it up during the show. Cause that’s another, you know, that’s another thing that. You run the risk of, is like when you’re setting something up, you know, it can take like 10 or 15 minutes and then the audience doesn’t have energy for the sketch. So, you know, we used to do this sketch that I wrote. This is my favorite thing on Fallon, was called first drafts of rock. 

That was very funny. The one with Kevin Bacon and Tom, the Tom Petty Free Fallin’ thing. I really liked. 

Yeah. Yes. And we did that like nine times or something. Most of which were with Kevin Bacon. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that was one that took a long time to set up and to get the set ready and to get people in the costumes and everything. But it just felt so like it needed to be done live. Like, you just needed the live energy of the audience there. That was, that was always a tough thing about that shows, like sometimes to just get a sketch ready, you need to do a stop down for like 10 or 15 minutes.

Can you explain for the audience what the premise was for this, this recurring bit? 

Yeah, so First Drafts of Rock is a really simple idea. You take a really famous rock song and you see Jimmy and usually Kevin Bacon perform the original draft of that song. Uh, so the first one we ever did was for Old Time Rock and Roll. That one was just, uh, just Take those old records off the shelf, then put those records back on the shelf. Then take those records, take them off the shelf. And then those records put them back on the shelf and just repeating that for three minutes. Uh, we did one for Fun Fun Fun by the beach boys that was entirely about the hamburger stand because you know the very first It’s usually just extrapolating something from the first lyric of the song Like so the one we did with where Kevin Bacon played Tom Petty was, uh, free falling. Um, and there’s a line in the first couple of lyrics of the song where it’s like, she loves horses and America too. So we just made the, the first draft of that song be entirely about how much this girl loves horses. You know, like we did a Kinks song, Lola, where it’s just, everything is rhyming with Lola. You just kind of take like the thing that most sticks out from a song and just. Keep doing that. I think my sense of humor, if you were to distill it, would just be dumb, simple musical and just keeps going on and on, which I feel like I once heard Jim Downey talk about his love of over-explaining things in sketches. And there’s just about nothing that I like more than than that, than just saying more than you need to. Uh, just like I am in this answer to your question, 

Two more questions. Um, I mentioned Bob Saget before we go to, as I said, we were going to talk about this. Do you write Saget a letter here? Are you 12 years old and 

Eight. I was eight years old, eight years old. 

So then this is years later. Bob is a guest on Fallon and he never, he didn’t write back. Correct? 

Correct. 

Okay. So this is years later. He’s coming on on Fallon’s show. And what happens? 

Well, I pitched an idea. I was like, uh, you know, I, I pitched what if I read Bob Saget, this letter that I wrote to him when I was eight years old. And the idea was pretty quickly approved. And one of these bits, you know, sometimes it feels like it’s such a headache to get a bit to finally make it on the show. This was one of those ones that just ran super smoothly. And I read the letter to Bob Saget on the show, which by the way, I pulled up in front of me. I feel like I should not read the whole letter, but maybe just a couple of excerpts just to kind of paint the picture. So I misspelled his name in the first line. I go, “Dear Bab Saget.” And this was an honest misspelling. 

Like you’re from Chicago. That’s how Smigel used to write the super fans

By the way, I should say my, my, we printed out an extra copy of this letter and my mom held onto it, which is why we still had the letter. 

I was wondering about that.

So kudos to my mom for holding on to this, um, awfully written letter that I wrote. I said, Dear Bab Saget, and this is from November 12th, 1992. I am someone named Arthur Meyer, and I am also a kid who likes to watch the TV shows that you are in. I live in Wilmette, Illinois. Are you in any other TV shows besides Full House and America’s Funniest Home Videos? I mostly like Full House, although both are funny. Do you like being in, at least what I call, in funny TV shows? I think your TV shows are real funny. Do you? I also wanted to ask you a little more questions. Are you in any, or were you in any, other TV shows besides Full House or America’s Funniest Home Videos? Which one do you like better? And then I’ll jump down to the final, this is the final paragraph. I have just four more questions to ask you. One is, do you have any favorite people that you act in? Two is, do you have any favorite shows that you acted or act in? Three is, would you want to be in any other TV shows that you act or acted in, or would you have liked doing another job? Actually, I just thought of three more questions. Four is that, how many years have you been an actor? Five is, how long does it take you to rehearse a 30 minute act? Like in other ways of saying it, when do you do it? And the sixth and last question is, do any other people who like to watch your TV shows write any letters to you? I wanted to write a lot of questions to you because I like your shows that you are in, but I am also only eight years and a half years old in third grade. So, do good acting. Maybe I will write to you another time. From Arthur Meyer, and then I give my address, and then P. S., and this is all capital letters, write back and answer the question. And I read that to Sagat, and I think he thought that there was some kind of joke that was going to be happening, like, that, like, there was some twist or something. So he was a little bit. I feel like he had sort of his defenses up a little bit and was kind of making jokes about it. Uh, so the bit didn’t like play out maybe exactly like I would want, but you know, it played well. And then afterwards I met him backstage because that was my first time meeting him was like on the show, which I wanted it to be that way. I could have met him before, but I’m like, I think it’ll be better TV if I’m meeting him for the first time. I did talk to him backstage and he answered every one of the even more questions than what I read. He answered every one of those and I think there’s a video on YouTube where you could see him. If you type in like Bob Saget, Arthur Meyer, I think you’ll see a video of him answering every question. But that was very cool. 

I have to ask you. I wrote him as well, but not, not nearly as charming. 

As stupidly? Not as stupidly as me? 

I wrote him something and he, he got back to me only with a, it was like three by five color pre-signed, you’re too cool, Bob Saget. And on the back, it was like studio fan mail, whatever company. Um, and I got that back, not a genuine, uh, response by any means. 

Yeah, well, I never got any response from him until 21 years later. Actually, here’s a cool fan letter story. When I was 16, I wrote a fan letter to Rachel Dratch. She had been on the show for a season and I thought she was funny. And I’m like, who’s an SNL person I could write to that might be more likely to write me back? And I thought, well, she’s only been on the show for a year, so I bet she gets less fan mail than other cast members. So I wrote, I basically asked her, like, I told her I’m a huge fan. I’m like, how can I do comedy? I’m an aspiring comedian. Do you have any advice? And I included a sketch that I had written for a radio show that I did in high school. When I was in high school, our high school was lucky and insane enough to have its own radio station. So my friend and I would write four or five sketches every week and I included a sketch and anyway, a couple months later or a month later or something, I got a handwritten letter back from Rachel Dratch in the mail. It’s about a page long and she’s thanking me for the letter and telling me what I can do, you know, she recommended Second City, which I took high school classes there, partially upon her recommendation. She included a signed headshot, and then 12 years later, I get hired to write at Fallon and in like my second week of the show, this is like March of 2012. She is a guest on the show and I’m like, well, I need to, I need to meet her. So I like, you know, even though it’s not a good look for like a new, especially a new writer to do, I Hung out in the studio hallway where the dressing rooms are and after her interview, she went to the dressing room. She came out and I stopped her. I’m like, excuse me, Rachel. I’m so sorry to interrupt. Uh, I’m a writer here at the show and I actually wrote you a fan letter when I was 16 and she interrupts me and goes, are you Arthur? Before I could even say my name. 

You’re kidding me. 

Insane, right? And she was just the nicest, like, yeah, I could not believe it.

Wow, that’s amazing that she remembered you. 

All of the SNL people that I worked with at the show, which ended up being a lot, like, yeah, Will Ferrell, Tracy Morgan, Andy Samberg, Molly Shannon, Maya Rudolph, Kristen Wiig, like, all of the, Dana Carvey, like, all the SNL people were, Some of the nicest and loveliest people I met. Will Forte, Fred Armisen, like just exactly what you would hope and you’re just like, oh, yeah, this makes sense why they’re so cool. Like you were drawn to these people when you’re a kid and you’re just like, well, you assume that there’ll be these kind of superheroes that will be standoffish or something. And then you get to know them and you’re like, well, of course I liked them so much. They’re all people who you want to hang out with. So you meet them and you’re like, yeah, there’s someone I still want to hang out with. You know? 

I love that you had that experience before we go. I wanted to mention this, uh, web series. Is that what you would call it? A web series that you’re doing ABC parenting? 

Yeah, someone said digital series recently, which I, I realized sounds maybe 5 percent less pathetic than a web series since it’s 2024 now. But yes, it’s a web series called ABC parenting. There’s 50 episodes of it, or we’ve released about 40. And what it is, is it’s a bad parenting advice channel. So if you want terrible parenting advice, Go to go to ABC, parenting on YouTube, Instagram or TikTok. And I co-host it with Stephanie Drake, who is a really funny actress who was on Mad Men. She played one of Don Draper’s secretaries. And yeah, there’s lots of people in the episodes, like, uh, parents, kids, there’s a few bigger name people. Erykah Badu, uh, Abby Elliot, uh, Beck Bennett, Lauren Lapkus, um, Joe Pera. Like a lot of, a lot of cool, uh. People make little appearances in it. But yeah, it’s, it’s a cool series. And I think we’re going to write more of them and do a quote unquote second season of it. 

Everyone check that out. We have to do a second episode to talk about. Not only have you done all this, you’re a guest on Letterman CBS actually got to sit down. You auditioned for SNL. So you did that in front of Lorne. Um, we have so, I have so many other things. I’m looking at to, to ask you about, so it would be great if we could do a second episode if you’re down with it. 

Of course. There’s no end to the amount that I love and want to talk about late night.

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