In the spring of 2009, Conan O’Brien made Rob Kutner an offer he couldn’t refuse: a staff writing position on his iteration of The Tonight Show, which was just about to premiere. Yes, it required Kutner leaving a long term writing gig at The Daily Show with Jon Stewart and moving his family to Los Angeles, but if ever a new opportunity screamed job security, this was it.
We all know how that turned out. Seven months after he started, Kutner was unemployed. Although he ended up following O’Brien to TBS, that offer didn’t come until eight or nine months later. In this episode of Inside Late Night, Rob Kutner walks Mark Malkoff through the highs and lows of his 20+ year career as a writer on late-night TV.
Along the way, he’s won 5 Emmys, a Peabody, and a TCA award. He’s also written four books, co-created two all-star comedy albums, and much much more. Kutner currently serves as head writer on God’s Gang, a new animated YouTube series revolving around four superheroes from different religious backgrounds.
Click the embed below to listen now, or find Inside Late Night on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Visit Rob Kutner’s website and follow him on X/Twitter
Show Transcript
Mark Malkoff: Rob Kutner, thanks for talking with me.
Rob Kutner: Always a pleasure, Mark.
You know, you were so nice when I worked at the day job at The Colbert Report. You would pass by a lot when I was doing my job before the taping. I was always envious. You got to leave early and you didn’t have to stay late sometimes, but you were always so nice. There were other people. I’m not going to mention one person. I don’t want to say anything bad about their appearance, but it was somebody unappealing who would walk by and just never make eye contact or say hi from The Daily Show. And I was like, “I’m here. I work on the show where Jon produces both of our shows,” but you were always very nice.
Oh, well, listen, I, I think you were so nice because I asked you like a thousand times to like, let me have guests come, or like to set up special things, and a thousand times over like, Uh, You’re the, you’re the, it looks like an old fashioned nice off, Malkoff.
Back and forth, that was, uh, I can’t believe how long ago, uh, that was.
So long ago, I know.
It, it’s interesting because I don’t know many people, I’m trying to think of anybody I know that went from Daily Show to Conan’s Show, were you, were you the only one that made that move?
Well, it’s actually, it’s actually funny, Matt O’Brien was a researcher on The Daily Show. And, uh, what they used to call a “faxer” to Weekend Update, you know, uh, back when there were faxes and when it was okay to do this thing, it’s not really okay with the WGA to fax-in jokes. Freelance jokes. But anyway, so Matt O’Brien was doing that and then he went off and worked on a bunch of other shows. And then after I had been at Conan, he came into Conan as the head writer. So I stayed at the same level and he went from researcher all the way to, like, boss. So that guy made the jump in a big way.
So how, why did you leave? Because you know, The Daily Show was a cush job. I mean, when you were there, there was at least one person, I think that was there from the beginning. And it was one of those things, was it that you wanted to go to LA? Is that? And The Tonight Show just being so exciting.
Yeah, it was, it was a lot of things. It was, yeah. One thing is I’d been in LA before. Um, I think we’re going to, we’ll probably talk about this at some point, but I worked, started out writing for Dennis Miller and his show was based in LA and I’d been there for like five years. So I was kind of moving out to New York on a lark to try this little, this scrappy little show called The Daily Show. So this was early Jon Stewart. It wasn’t a huge show. It was kind of getting on the map, but I just knew it was always written really well. So I came out to try it for a little while and then it kind of really blew up.I think, I think as soon as I arrived is when it blew up. But no. So I stayed, ended up staying for seven years and, but, uh, my wife and I had a lot of friends in LA and my wife worked in LA, mostly, her job was in TV. And we just had a baby, you know, having a baby in New York is no picnic. And then also like the other factor was that seven years is a long time to be coming in and watching Fox News all day as your job, let’s just put it that way.
The other thing is you win an Emmy every year no matter what, even if the show didn’t air, you guys would still win.
I know, I’m not complaining about that at all, but, um, you know the way people, you know, humans are so stupid that like, even like the most amazing thing starts to feel like routine business when it happens enough, so my, my point being that like, that was amazing, but I also wanted to just try different things. I wanted to try new creative challenges and Conan was like the right balance of smart and comedy, but a little bit less political, a little bit less intense, which is what I was ready for.
How many months were you there with the writing staff pitching and you were monologue. So were you pitching other ideas and how long before the launch were you there?
For the new one, um, actually I was just there. I came in after it started. So they, they launched in, I want to say like July of 09. You have the chronology probably, right?
It is ‘09. Yes.
Yes. July of 09. And they hired me in June. And so I had a month to move my family, including aforementioned baby, uh, across the country. And it got to the, and, but then they were also starting to like, um, do like a couple of shows, I think before I had moved, they arranged with either. I could, I could submit from, from abroad from New York anyway, before I got there, I could send my jokes in every day. So my wife describes this one point, the movers carrying the mattress out while I was sitting on it, sending jokes in the Conan.
So you were, you were there at what point did you know that there might be some, some trouble. I know that you said “that one week was, it was a very notable Six Flags stream of emotions. We really didn’t know exactly when the last show was going to end. So we felt like Wile E. Coyote running off the cliff before he looks down.”
First of all, you’re butchering my, my, my poetry here, but…
(Laughs)
No, so you know what? It’s, it’s funny that you asked that, because the, the simple answer is we had no effing clue. At least those of us at the staff writer level, which is basically, you know, in late night, as opposed to sitcoms, you don’t have this… you don’t have a hierarchy. You have the head writer and the EPs, and then everyone else is a staff writer. So we didn’t know it all. And I think it’s in part, they kind of kept that from us. Like when I read Bill Carter’s The Late Show, a lot of it was news to me, what was happening inside my own house.
Oh, The Late Shift, or what was the second one?
No, no, no. Sorry. The second one that he did, it was about, about the Conan Leno thing. I forgot what it was called, but yeah,The Late Shift was the other Leno Letterman thing. But um, Yeah, so the one that was about this, like I read a lot of stuff, uh, that was news to me because we had not been privy to it. I think this was a part of the culture Conan wanted to keep, which was like, not have people worried about stuff, not worried about that stuff, to deal with that at the high level. What the clue was in this, it was like December of, I guess this is 09 still, um, the writer’s assistant, runs in the morning and says, you guys got to check out TMZ and that’s never really a good thing is not really a good reason, you know, “Conan pets puppy” all over TMZ. That’s not really going to be what the story is. And that was what that was, was that was the interview that Jay Leno gave to Broadcast and Cable Magazine. I think it was where they said, would you consider coming back? Which was basically him floating a trial balloon. For NBC to pick him up because Conan’s ratings were floundering. I mean, we knew the ratings weren’t great, but you know, with Leno, he let, they let Leno like stay on for like 18 months and then he got a huge boost and he really took off after that Hugh Grant interview, I think. So like, he got a long time to sort of grow his audience. So we didn’t really think that was a problem. But then like, that thing made us all nervous, I think. And that was December. So it’s like the end of the year. And then, and then I think that was around the time that I described when we started having, we had these sort of meetings where Conan was like, “Everything’s fine. Don’t worry about what you read in the press.It’s all going to be good.” And I don’t think that was him lying. I think he just didn’t know. And what he went by that was like, “I’m going to take care of you all. I’m going to make sure this is okay for you. Whatever happens,” that was the way it was. So, you never want a meeting like that either. Really? But, uh, we didn’t really have the inclinations. And then, um, I don’t remember the exact chronology, but like the news that we suddenly, like, had two weeks left of the show. That was when that period I described happened. And that was that put that amazing highs and amazing lows because it’s something like What happened to this job that I just moved out with my, my baby and my family across the country for, seven months ago, you know, what happened to that? And I left The Daily Show for it. I was like, you know, “Don’t leave The Daily Show unless you’re going to leave for like literally the oldest franchise in TV history, like the oldest show. Who’s going to mess with The Tonight Show?” It seemed like the most solid thing to change to of all. And then, you know, life happens.
It was your idea to put the set on Craiglist, to put Conan and the set?
Um, yes, that was my, that was, see, that was that period when it was just like, he was just reckless, and he was just like, anything goes, I don’t care what we do to the show, and I think this real, this side of Conan that we see now, which I think is kind of healthy, like this sort of like, Him showing his claws and his kind of a bit of cynicism and edge really like just burst out in full display, I think, where he’d sort of kept that under wraps, he had more of a gentle whimsical man, boy, kind of cartoony feel to it where everyone’s kind of happy. And then I think like he really kind of like had the slap of the face and he, I think the edge came out and it was really great. I think it’s been great for his comedy ever since.
I know at TBS, you would be at Warner’s, you would be with Conan, the other monologue writers, it’d be maybe four of you and um, some other key people in Conan’s dressing room. Would you be there at The Tonight Show as well in the same capacity with Conan before the show?
Yeah. Yes. I think we, I think we basically kept the same. He likes to work in the same way. I think the only difference was that we had five shows a week there as opposed to four, and that might not sound like a lot to people, but there’s something about on Friday after doing four shows like where you’re just really worn down. And I think we were just really tired out, you know, then you’re there late on a Friday and you’re not doing your best work again, not to complain. I’ve had a very blessed and exciting career, but we much preferred TBS when it was four days as the daily show had been because that’s really you do your best. I think about four days of just one show after another is great. And going beyond that, it’s sort of pushing it, or at least it was hard for me.
What was that like, the final Tonight Show? The one with Will Ferrell and Neil Young and a bunch of cameos?
I mean that was just, I mean everything was just like I was saying like just an emotional whirlwind. You know that whole week just the low of like my job is ending, what are we going to do? I just moved out here and then also like the there was just this incredible high because During that week, there was a big fan organized protest. I mean, this whole, “I’m with Coco” movements, kids today, the kids today. They don’t remember this, but there was a huge, like, it was so stupid because it was like national news all the time. We obviously didn’t have anything else to worry about, you know, in 2009, that’s when nothing else was happening in the world. The writer’s strike had come and gone, the great recession was kind of receding, if you will. But it was, and so everywhere people were asking about this, like people who weren’t even like, TV fans, and I was like, you know, there are other things in the world that are actually a lot more dramatic than this, but all these fans, like, had these protests, and there was, and it was a rain, there’s a rainy day at Universal, NBC Universal, where we were taping the show, and they came out in mass and you know, you’ve been in LA enough to know that people don’t do anything when it’s raining back like the Wicked Witch of the West, like it’s going to kill them and they stay inside and they never leave the house. People came out and marched and people walking in LA, let alone rain people actually walking on foot like they marched out in front of Universal. And that was so amazing because so often in TV or really almost any creative endeavor, you don’t necessarily know how much your audience loves you. You know, maybe if you’re a stand up you would, or a theater actor, but you don’t really get that actual sense of how much your audience loves you. And so seeing people on mass in the rain coming out demanding that NBC let Conan stay was just like so, such a lift under our sails for all of us that it. That, plus the sort of devil may care feeling that Conan was bringing was like just super exciting and fun on top of and it kind of like coasted us right through I think the depressing cold reality of it, I think so. So the Will Ferrell, Neil Young, like that was just this culmination of this two weeks of an intense emotional thing. I think we were probably all in tears. I think I was certainly
You did an interview and you’re talking about being in Conan’s dressing room before the show. And, you know, a bunch of the monologue people in the Conan would just make songs up about Brian Kiley on the spot, but you’d say they would rhyme and they would be absolutely perfect. And he would just have his guitar and this would happen. He has that ability.
Yeah. It’s amazing. Like the way, the levels that his mind works out. Um, I mean, you know, that documentary, Conan O’Brien Can’t Stop, I imagine you probably saw it, but he really can’t, he can’t turn it off. It’s almost like an extremely lucrative disease. He has like a compulsion where he just, his brain is always moving. And I think this is how we kind of got the job is because He was at The Simpsons. He was just, everyone’s pitching stuff, but he’s getting up there acting out things going to the next three levels of something. He’s doing that. So it’s like this, this is in the middle of Conan putting his show together for the day. So he’s making high level decisions that have to be spot on. And then he’s twirling around with the guitar, making up rhyming songs just to mock one of his staff. Like it’s incomprehensible, like how many levels his mind works at.
When you found out about Conan, it was, it was a little bit different than most people when Conan got the gig in ‘93, because you had a friend who was friends with Conan’s brother, Justin O’Brien.
Yeah
So you hear, how do you hear this? Because I just hear there’s this obscure, um, Saturday Night Live writer and I’m like, I’ve, I can’t believe he got the gig. Who is this guy? But how did you find out about it?
I think he was, um, if I have the chronology right, I think he was SNL and then Simpsons, but…
Yes, SNL and then Simpsons.That’s right. Yeah.
Yes, he was on The Simpsons and I remember it like, yeah, so my friend who’s also named Justin, his friend was named Justin, and he just told me that before his brother was, his friend’s brother was a writer on The Simpsons, and that was kind of interesting for me because I was like, leaning in that way myself. But I didn’t really think of it and then he just, that’s how I found out, was he called me and says, “You’re not going to believe what happened to Justin’s brother.” I’m like, “Wait, what? What do you mean it happened? Did something bad happen? Was there an accident?” And then he tells me about it, and I had no idea about this, and it was just, like, shocking for me, too. Because it was also, like, I think you’re saying, it was about, like, sort of, like, a civilian, if you will. You know, usually, as we’ve seen, especially with The Daily Show triads, usually, like, it’s almost always someone sort of famous who takes over these things. And so, like, someone that no one’s ever heard of taking over was, like, equally shocking for me.
I wanted to ask about some of the pieces you wrote. You did mainly monologue for Conan, but I know you wrote some sketches. You wrote the “Mrs. Butterworth’s:The Movie” piece. Can you describe that?
Yeah, that was very satisfying. So this was a period when I think this was like the 20, I want to say it’s like 2012, 2013, something like that. There was this like brief trend where they were doing like dark versions of kids movies. Like there was this, um, Kristen Stewart’s Snow White. It was like Snow White and the Huntress, like a super dark version of that. There’s something else like that too. I can’t remember the time. It was like they were taking kids properties and making them super dark. And so I think it actually got pitched around a little bit. Like I was trying to find like, what’s the kids property? That would be like the best to just go dark with, and I think at one point we talked about Bazooka Joe, and there was a big debate about like whether kids know Bazooka Joe, whether there was anything there, I think there was a couple of iterations, and then I think we just finally went with Mrs. Butterworth, just because it was so cool. ubiquitous, but a little bit kind of like old timey. And like, why is that even still there? Like, now we look back at Mrs. Butterworth is kind of, you know, embarrassing, uh, you know, from other perspectives, but it was one of these things that was still kind of sticking around back then. And also you remember, like there were those sort of those animated Mrs. Butterworth commercials from like…
That’s true. I forgot about those.
…I feel like from decades ago, like maybe or something like that, where she comes to life and like pours syrup for kids. Somehow like that idea seemed like making that into an action figure seemed like a natural outlet where she, where she, um, she has a machine gun that fires syrup everywhere. And the coolest thing about that was there’s this great, we had a great SFX guy on, uh, on Conan, Eric, uh, his name, last name eludes me, but he created like Johnny Five for Short Circuit. And he created a bunch of things for like big movies and stuff like that. I want to say Transformers, one of these movies, like he created like major effects for. So that was not special effects. That was practical, as they call it real life effects where they, they built a hydraulic machine. It wasn’t actually syrup. Sorry to say..
Spoiling everything on me.
They, they, they got like a thick, you know, thickened liquid, whatever it was with brown food coloring. But they built a hydraulic machine and ran these tubes up into her arms, so she fires a machine gun and it just fires like massive blasts of syrup everywhere, like in real time, not with CG again. Uh, that was, and, and they also built something where like, I had this effect in the script where someone would, in a fight, it’s usually a fist fight, someone punches her, she does, it’s that Rocky, I think, Rocky III slow-mo thing with like the face getting smashed. And like his, his mouth garden is blood and spit. That is that cliche from boxing movies, basically the blood and the spit comes out, but this was going to be syrup and the syrup has to come out of the head, you know, the nozzle. So they also built a thing where like she had this sort of loose cap on her hat. And again, the hydraulic thing, where like they punch her. And at the same time as someone punches her, the hydraulics team sprays the syrup out and then they, then they film it in slow motion. I mean, then they edited the slow motion. So it was like this amazing, cool effect that they did in real life. So like to have.a whole production team that has done amazing like blockbuster movies doing this incredibly stupid, ridiculous thing for you, for your idea is like, you don’t know what kind of rush that is and like how crazy that is in like the scheme of things.
That’s fun. You know, it seems to me that when Conan really likes somebody, he makes fun of them. And I remember early on you telling me, because I knew people at the show that would get this sometimes, where he would just either have his guitar or he wouldn’t. And he would just, you know, the quickest mind and stuff. Wouldn’t he talk about the Talmud with you and stuff? Like, what would he say to you sometimes? Like, be joking around?
Yes, he liked to have, um, he’s not the only host, but… What he would do is, uh, like a lot of people is like people on his team, you give everybody kind of a nickname and kind of like a riff or there was a thing about them that he would hook into. And so even though he had like multiple Jewish writers on the show, I’m probably like the most Jewishly observant or affiliated. So he called me like the same way that he do songs towards Brian Kiley. He would also like do jokes about Boston. Brian Kiley identifies really strongly with Boston. So we make all kinds of jokes with him about that. To me, he’d make all kinds of jokes about Judaism. And so, like, So, like, if we were, like, doing a monologue joke in a rewrite session, and I point out some editorial problem with it, he, like, he’s like, oh, he’s like, “Oh, did you find that in the Talmud?” Like, it was that kind of thing. And, and then sometimes he would go a little deeper just in case he’s a genius and knows everything. And he would, like, go into some deep cut thing. I can’t remember examples. I wish I could. But, like, he would tease me in this way that was, like, he was sort of this, you know, he’s from a family of, like, five Irish siblings. So, like, ball busting is just, like, the nature of the business. That’s just what you do all the time. So he was doing this with his staff. So it was like this loving kind of bullying, but also with this level of engagement and interest that clearly, like, meant that it wasn’t, you know, anti semitic or cruel or anything like that. It was clearly like teasing at a sort of higher level.
When you were at Dennis Miller Live, would Dennis really throw out just a normal conversation sometimes these references?
Oh yeah, totally.
So it wasn’t just contained to him…
No, no, I mean that was, I think that was like part of his, that’s the way he thinks, like that’s the way, I mean that was this kind of innovation he brought to comedy in a way it was like to, To do that, because I think that’s just naturally for him, you know, to that, it’s interesting because nowadays, like, I feel like comics might be afraid to do that because they’re like, “I don’t want to lose anyone. You know, I don’t want to lose anyone along the way with a reference.” And he was like, he was very hipster, right? It was like, very much if, as they say now, If you know, IYKYK, if you know, you know, like, people do that. Like, he was just doing that kind of openly, I think, for his very, you know, it’s also an HBO show. So a very self selected crowd, so they knew what they’re getting. He wasn’t trying to get network numbers, you know, for his show, but that’s the way he thinks. It wasn’t like an affectation.
If you ever wrote references and gave it to him, would sometimes he not really know what they were, but just be like, Oh, okay. This is popular. If this is what people, somebody knows, I’m just going to do it. If it gets a laugh, would they, would he trust writers like that?
Yeah. That was the funny thing too, is that, right. So he came out with this album, the, you know, the Off-White album, which is a fantastic standup album. Um, and then he did his stuff on Weekend Update on SNL, where he would do that. Um, and then on his road act, he would do that. But for the show, the show was once a week. And so that’s like a huge volume of shows. And he can’t think of enough of those at volume that are going to be amazing references that really fit the situation. But he hired people who he thought he could. I mean, we had a very quirky writers group. He hired people who come up with those. The funny thing though, was that at least I, I, I was with him for the like eighth and ninth season. So he’d kind of like settled into kind of a groove. And so he’d come in, And he’d see what we wrote. And if you see a reference, instead of like, kind of investigating it or asking the story about it, he’d be like, he’d say, is that a thing? We say, yeah, he’s like, “Cool. Moving on.” I mean, that was nice to like, he trusted us enough to like, just like, let that go and not even investigate any further.
I know that one of your comedy heroes is Christopher Guest. I know that he was a guest when you were there. Would you be able to go backstage and say hi to some of the guests? Or were you just working and just kind of separated? Would you go backstage sometimes and say hi?
No, it was, you know, what it was, was that show was so, um, unlike the late night shows, which have like 16 things going on, they have the band, they have the comic, they have all the different set pieces, that show had a fixed format. So it was like monologue, the rant, which is Dennis’s kind of signature piece, like his sort of like weekly tirade, full of those references. That was the main place for those. And then funny captions on photos from the news. Oh, and then guest, and then a big picture photo. So it’s just same formats. Very predictable, very predictable schedule, which means that the guest was only coming on for their guest segment. And then the show was done taping pretty, you know, relatively quickly within an hour and then, um, the guests would hang out in the green room and you know, the thing is about late night and being that thing is you don’t necessarily want to do that that often. I feel this is just me. I feel weird about like celebrities because you have this whole asymmetric relationship or like. They mean a lot to you, and you mean nothing to them, and then it’s awkward for them, and you know, it’s like the Chris, you know, the old Chris Farley show on SNL, like, yeah, George Lucas, remember that time you made Star Wars? That was awesome. You know, it’s like, what do you say to someone who, like, but in a few exceptional cases, I really did want to meet them because they were heroes, like George Carlin. So my point is, like, it was pretty easy at that show to go to the green room, which was like, just, they would just hang out there after the show was done for a little while, and the booker was cool if you didn’t ask too much, So like I got to meet George Carl and I said, you’re the reason I went into comedy and he said, “Is that a good thing?” Which is perfect. Adam Carolla, my cousin was in from South Carolina, was a big fan. And I brought him to the show and I’d asked permission and he was like super cool to my cousin. I got to just bring him back to meet him. Uh, Christopher Hitchens was, had a nice chat with him in between glugs of whiskey and cigars. Anyway, so yeah, when a few selected and the same thing with, uh, Conan, like I got to meet Dick Van Dyke, which was awesome. Uh, got to meet Lin Manuel Miranda. I got to meet, They Might be Giants, but like, you know, most of the time you don’t want to do it. But like, I think when you don’t ask the. You know, the bookers have a lot to deal with and they don’t want to let you be mobbed. So if you ask them very judiciously, I think they’re cool with it. Usually
I always say, and I’ve been witness to this, is that there are certain celebrities that it helps them backstage. They’re nervous and get somebody that wants to meet them as a positive thing. And I can tell sometimes that they actually gets them off their nerves and they’re like, “Oh, cool. Yeah.”
Yeah. I think, I think they all have really different feelings about like fame and you know, just as an example, like, Conan was super into, like, being recognized and interacting with the public all the time. Like, Andy was not into that. Like, Andy is happy with being famous and doing lots of stuff, but he didn’t want to be, like, when he was out of his performance mode, he wanted to just be a private citizen. You know, like the baseball cap, eyeglass, uh, shades wearing kind of guy. Didn’t want to be bugged when he was with his family. Conan was fine with it and liked it. So it just really depends on the celebrity, I think, like you said.
Yeah, I think, I think that you’re right. And it depends. There’s a variety of circumstances. You were a writer’s assistant. You got hired as a writer’s assistant on Dennis Miller’s show. You were there for a couple seasons. When did you realize that you could start pitching jokes? Because I have worked on shows where they would not, unless you were a writer, you would not even be able to suggest anything. And they would be so strict about that. Was there anyone else that moved up the chain that way? And when, how, how did that go when you started pitching to Dennis when he was in the room?
Yeah, every show has a different culture and some cultures, they’re amenable to that–promoting from within, you know, in half hour, like sometimes they’ll like let the writer’s assistant or two of the writer’s assistants like share a script and then they get like a partial WGA credit, which is helpful to them. And of course, the money from it and stuff, and getting their work TV. And then some of the late-night shows were, some of them were like you said, you know, everyone stays in their hole. Everyone stays in their place in the great chain of being. And then shows like, uh, Dennis Miller was, was very cool about it. Uh, several other people, two of the people before me had moved up, um, from Writer’s Assistant into Writer. The other show went both ways, actually. Like, they had a period when they were into that and then they stopped doing it and they went back to it. So it’s interesting. It’s kind of unusual. I was really fortunate that I was on two shows that did that. Well, at least the one that counted was the one where I got moved from writer’s assistant. As far as pitching, because they, I’d known, you know, the person who sort of referred me to them, that it happened to them, that’s how I got the job, is my writing partner was an assistant, and he got moved up, and he recommended me to take over, so I knew that was part of the equation, but I was still super nervous about that, so basically, like, you would sort of submit some jokes anonymously during the week, like, basically, the writer’s assistant is compiling everybody else’s submissions, and so I put my own page in with like my own submissions and that and then, you know, if he uses them, he uses them or whatever, you don’t get any credit or money. So, but I was like, “Please exploit me.” What started happening, though, was Dennis, you know, Dennis is a guy who really values writers, and he really likes to know who contributes to his show, which is not always the case. So, like, if he really liked a joke, he’d say, “Who wrote this?” And I’d raise my hand sometimes, so he noticed who I was. And then I had this, I don’t know, when I was in that age, I was so driven, I had this extra ball. Because like we would be in the writer’s room on show day, and there’d be like kind of a lull, or people couldn’t think of something and I would just pitch things like verbally, like I can’t imagine doing that now. Like that’s, and Dennis Miller, like, he’s a good guy, but he’s a little scary. You know, he, he’s scary and if, if you’re on his bad side, like, watch out. So I just had this extra dose of courage and I would pitch stuff and you gotta be careful. I wouldn’t just pitch sh*t, but, you know. I would pitch, um, something and sometimes it would be good. And so like over time, over the course of the two seasons, I was assistant, he noticed that was contributing. And then finally, like the last season, one of the writers, senior writers left. And so there was some opening in the budget and he knows I was contributing and they had this culture. So I think he’d seen that I was contributing, like, you know, actively. And I think the head writer, Eddie Feldman had probably mentioned that I was getting stuff on the show, I think, because he was a really good guy, supported the writer’s assistant path to writer. And so all those things contributed to that.
I know your wife then, when Dennis went to CNBC, I know that she was, Sheryl, was over there writing.
Yes
But Dennis really pushed for the writers, they were not WGA, to go there. And I know that there, there might’ve been some resistance, but the Dennis pushed and was successful to get in that for the writers, which made a world of difference. I’m sure.
Yeah, it’s amazing because um, yeah, so right after the HBO show wraps, they picked him up for CNBC, but you know, CNBC’s financial network, it’s like tech bro central and they are not What you would call a labor friendly site. But as I was just saying, Dennis like values writers so much that he demanded that his writers be guild. And that’s interesting to for people because of his politics sort of being on the right wing side of things again, like also not like, you know, labor friendly, but the fact that he sort of Put that outside of his sort of political predispositions and just said, like, “Take care of my people because they take care of me,” like that, that was a really spoke well for him.
What were the circumstances that you were doing data entry for Steven Spielberg?
Oh, boy. More gotcha journalism, Malkoff. I get it.
Yes, getting my Pulitzer.
IHere we go. Yeah, that’s if that’s funny. So, um, So when I moved out to L. A., it was after like, I was in college and then I spent a year abroad and then I spent a year, um, in D.C. working in like business and I, but I was always planning to come to L.A. And I was kind of like, you want to move out there with a job of some kind, and I just had this plan. I was going to do it. And the thing that came up was, uh, Steven Spielberg ran this project through USC, University of California, called the Shoah Foundation. The show is the Hebrew word for Holocaust. And basically, this was he was trying to compile an archive of Testimonies from Holocaust survivors before they passed away.
I remember this. Yeah.
Yeah. So I don’t know where I saw this was job listed, but it’s, it was located on the universal lot that the Shoah Foundation and I, it’s in my sort of like, I’ll, this is the same hunger that I had that I described in the writer’s room and my hunger for like, I’m going to get on this train, even if I have to like use my fingernails to claw into the caboose as it’s getting away. I said, I said to myself, “Okay, this seems like a good cause, it’s a job, I can tell my parents I have a job, and when we get there without a job, I’m unemployed, and I’m going to be able to sell a lot, and Steven Spielberg was involved,” and you know, in my mind, you know, I’m a, I’m a fictionalist, I’m a writer, so you always think three crazy steps ahead of what it actually is, because it’s just how you work, I was thinking, you know, maybe Steven passes by sometimes, you know, maybe, uh, maybe we’ll chat, maybe I’ll show him a script sometime, you know, you have to, you have to think of all these ridiculous false hopes sometimes to keep yourself going because this business is just beats you down if you don’t, if you don’t try crazy things sometimes. So I did it. So, so, and even better was that it was, um, it was on the Universal lot. It was in a trailer, like one of those, like, celebrities get their makeup done. It was like a trailer. They’d fit it out for this bunch of data entry people. He never walked through it all. We never saw him at all. But the, you know, the point was, I think that, like, I want, it was sort of my way of getting sort of close to some way to Hollywood as a starting point. You know, I only was there for like three or four weeks and then I got a job in post production at a company that makes trailers. Cause I was like, this is really not working out. You know, it was cool for me at least to drive in the Universal lot with it, with a badge every day, like moving to Hollywood. That was fun.
Oh yeah. I, I do want to point out people that are listening. I mean, you, you go from Princeton to LA and your goal is to do TV, comedy, more sitcom, and it took you about five years. Um, you know, you were a PA on a sitcom, until you, you got your writing gig. So, I mean, sometimes it takes people not. That long, um, some people fall into it. Most people, it would, it takes at least, um, that, but the fact that you were in it for the long and the long haul, and you got very creative and, um, even since generating so many of your own projects, just being proactive, um, I think if somebody is trying to go into a career like that is very helpful.
I think the, the cliche is like, you know, the shark, the shark stops moving. They, I don’t know if they die, but it like, it’s injurious. So they have to keep moving. They keep water going through their gills. There’s something about that. It sounds like a motivational speaker Ted Talk thing, but like, I think you do have to kind of keep moving in this field because the field keeps changing, opportunities drop. I mean, that Tonight Show thing, right? Seven months after that, the most solid move in history is gone. You know, you just never know what’s going to happen the next day.
And you did not know you were going to go to TBS, that took, how many, was it 8 months that you were out of work? When did you find out?
Yeah, it was about, yeah, it was about 8 or 9 months.And I had a new baby to feed, right? So yeah, that was kind of a scary time, and then he went on this tour, which is what’s documented in that film, where he went around the country doing music and comedy and songs and stuff like that. We didn’t really know what’s happening. He was kind of incommunicado. And then all these negotiations were happening behind the scenes. And then, so that’s like, January, right? Um, the crazy two weeks of January, we’re off the air. He goes, we get together with him to pitch some ideas for his tour. And that was kind of it. He goes off and does this stuff. And then like, August, we get a call saying like, you need to come in and meet with the WGA, because they’re going to negotiate your salary for Conan. Oh, no, we saw we saw that there is they announced in the trades and in the trade papers that there was going to be a TBS show. No one told us that no one said anything to us about it. But we got a call from the WGA saying, come in and talk about your your salary demands are like, I’m like, “Okay, For what? Salary for what?” Like we had no idea. So that’s how we found out. So we came in, met with them, and then basically that indicated that we were of interest to be hired for their show. So it was kind of this very, in a way, it was a very Hollywood story. Like suddenly something gets up and running and you got to jump again, jump on the train. I don’t know why I keep using Wild West. Highway robbery, uh, metaphors, but it does feel like a chain that’s always moving.
The Johnny Carson writers, at least for some of, um, the time when they were there, they could leave at the monologue. People could be leave at one o’clock. They would hand their stuff and they were done.
Wow
They weren’t, you know, like, “Let’s give it another crack.” Whereas, um, you know, the sketch writers, I mean, were there, um, much later normally. Now, the way that Conan would work and then Jon Stewart, you would do an initial pass with Conan and then he would look at everything and then you’d be still working on new stuff. Is that how it would go? Or you would get notes from him and then you would…
Both shows were the same way. Like, I can’t even imagine that, that leaving at 1pm. Um, and I think also maybe like, As compared, even though I was on a monologue team, ostensibly at Conan, I, we were still expected to pitch sketches like the Mrs. Butterworth thing we mentioned, like we’re supposed to pitch them. Yeah, so in both shows, you write things in the morning, you sort of send your first effort in, whatever form that is, you get notes of some kind, you meet with the bosses and the talent, Jon or Conan. You go back with revisions. You do more things. You work pretty much work through the whole day, like from morning until until tape really up until taping, which both both shows is around five o’clock. The Daily Show is very tightly run. So basically we taped it about well, you know, this, you’re, you’re, you’re still bitter about this. Our early days, but that was like it. That was a tight. That was the tightest ship I’ve ever worked on where we were done at like six basically. So just as you’re sitting out there in the bitter, Hell’s Kitchen, next to the Hudson, freezing ass cold.
I felt bad for the audience. They were in that holding room sometimes for over an hour because they would be rewriting the show or waiting for a graphic. And I remember our warm up guy, um, had to do, one time an hour. Sometimes he would do 40 or 50 minutes where a warm up should be minutes, eight minutes.
That’s a lot. I mean, that’s, that’s, sitcoms do that sometimes, I think, but yeah, that’s a lot.
Sitcoms do the four hours, but for something like this, it’s
For one of our shows, that’s really unusual, yeah. So we, so that was a tight ship, we’d be, we’d be out of there by, by six, and they didn’t really want us around after that, because it’s basically, it was, it was going right into editing and going to, to tape for that night. But then at Conan, uh, after the taping, there was a, there was a big pitch meeting with everybody, monologue and sketch writers. The sketch team would be working on stuff during the day and meeting and stuff, while we were just in our offices writing monologue, meeting with Conan for evaluation of our jokes and stuff. But then everybody was expected to come and bring pitches to the pitch meeting, which was like after the show. Um, and that was kind of a bit of a free for all as well. So, you know, we’re getting out, like more typical 7:30, 8:00.
Still not bad.
Compared to a sitcom, that’s still pretty good too. Those, those go to like 2 a.m. sometimes. They’re crazy, but…
You have to set this up the visual for me. I’m trying to figure this out. Jon Stewart, driving an ice cream truck. What are the circumstances and how did this happen a lot?
I like how you set it up like a novelist, like camera open or whatever, like a screenplay writer, the camera finds Jon Stewart open. Yeah. So, um, You know, I think Jon always trying to, uh, trying to keep it fun and keep it light. And so like, as I said, we only taped Monday through Thursday. So on Fridays, it wasn’t production day. And I think like probably twice a year, the show would sponsor a field day where like they go out to some place out in a borough or something like that, where there was an actual field outside of Manhattan and, you know, have games and activities and stuff like that. And then Jon would, Jon would draw, would drive up in an ice cream truck, like we’re in the little hat, like the good humor man hat and like serve ice cream to everybody, which I thought was just very cool. And like down to earth.
Yeah, I know that sometimes they would do the softball games once in a while. Jon would play there and not, I don’t think often. I remember when I worked at Colbert, they, they did some pickup, um, um, like a touch football game and Jon showed up to that right next to, to the field and stuff. But it’s, it’s great when you can have a host like that. Colbert, Stephen Colbert was very much like that too with the rapport. Um, just the good atmosphere with getting everyone there.
Yes.
You know, I worked with audiences for quite a while in television. Um, what happened with Tom Cruise? They had this audience for Vanilla Sky and I’d never had this happen, but Teri Abrams, she had to get people that had seen the movie to be audience members? Is this right?
No, it was the other way around, like, as a condition, so Tom Cruise was a big get for The Daily Show.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don’t remember when Vanilla Sky was, it wasn’t like super long into Jon’s run, so he was still, you know, so that was like a big movie star get for them. One of Tom’s conditions was that the audience had to be taken in a bus to see it first, before the people who’d, you know, as you know, you sign up people in the audience ahead of time. So you know who’s on the list, but the people that agreed to this, like they had to be taken in a bus to see the movie first and then brought to the taping, which, you know, late in the day. And also there was a, um, some kind of sponsorship tie in with Burger King, which was not a usual thing, but I think to do with this movie. So they were all given Burger King meals. So, like, they’re sitting there waiting in the holding room. So, like, the whole studio smells like Burger King. The whole audience has been taken away like this sort of you know, hostages or cult like that. So very, very unusual, but like, you know, very memorable thing. And I think like, we’re all like, was that worth it or not? I guess it was a full day of entertainment and food.
Yeah, that’s that’s a big commitment. I remember, um, normally when I’m Johnny Carson, at least if somebody went on, they would the big people like Beatty, Warren Beatty would be want to make sure that Johnny had seen the movies. And if they didn’t, it was really tough for them. Carson tried to see them. I’m sure Jon Stewart tried as much and I know he read the books, which…
I’m not sure he tried. He definitely read the books, which, which was unusual. Like he, like either he read the book or he like definitely read a lot of it, which is pretty unusual…
He can speed read, I heard. Somebody told me that. I think it might’ve been (Rob) Corddrey.
He must’ve, because he would have so many. I think when Conan would have authors on it with someone that he liked, he’d read their books and he liked them already. So he was interested in them. I don’t think either of them like made a big effort to watch the movies. And I think That became less of a, um, I think as a contrast with the Carson era, probably the Leno era to some extent. I don’t think that was felt as being necessary. I feel like Letterman probably, if I had to guess, Letterman broke the mold on that. Because you know, his whole attitude of like, this is all wink wink, this is all ironic, this is all kind of a big show that we’re doing. I feel like that kind of deconstructed the pretense of like, “Oh, we’re all big fans of you and your movie,” and that sort of stuff, that to be fair, Carson’s a good sport. And he was playing along with the culture of the times. I think the irony of the 80s and the 90s. Kind of broke that. And so like, there wasn’t really a pretense, but, you know, also like the cool thing about these hosts is they, they, they wouldn’t say that Conan did this amazing set of phrases. He would be like, he’s like “this new movie, people are loving this.” Like, like this, “This is really the talk of the town.” Like he’s all these ways of saying it, not, not really saying anything about it, but just like being positive, which is really funny.
Letterman, it seemed like if it was like Meryl Streep or Denzel Washington or somebody, he would, he would see the movie. But, um, if not, yeah, it didn’t always happen. Um, you wrote these, um, was, I don’t know if it was a runner or was it just a one time, on Conan, you did the Jersey Shore screen tests. You actually got these A list performers. Was that for TBS? Was that for The Tonight Show?
Yeah, that was, yeah, that was another one of these like pitches. Um, and you know, it was always like some, a pitch was always based on some like, you know, maybe even the tiniest news story. And I just saw that the Jersey, this is like, I don’t know which season it was, but Jersey Shore been around for a while. They were, they were just, you know, the way they would do the teasing. “We’re adding a new cast member,” and that’s all they say. Yeah. So, so I just pitched this idea. I was like, what if we like found, what if they were like auditioning, like a list people for it and we found the screen test for it and we showed those. My hats off to the, to the, the talent bookers. Like they got all these publicists, uh, to bring in like big stars to do this, like this bit, you know, which is not usually what they do. Usually you come in, you have a project to plug. You’re going to be pampered in your green room and stuff like that. Like, these are good sports. They got, we got, like, John Lithgow, um, Anne Hathaway, Paul Rudd, uh, um, Jack McBrayer. And, like, the joke was that they would come in and I went through transcripts of previous Jersey Shores with the aid of the research department. And we found just, like, really juicy, like, what’s the most ridiculous quote. And I would just, so I picked out all these quotes from the show. And would like match them up to the actor for like, like the biggest mismatch. And it was really funny because Anne Hathaway like you think of her as this very kind of prestigious, you know, kind of a very cultured sort of like her roles and stuff. And she like just let herself be really loose and crazy with it and like, super fun. It was Jesse Eisenberg did this thing where it was, I think it was a little of The Situation and he’s talking about like how he does dance moves and he’s like, “We’re not just out there doing a dance. We’re out there beating the beat. We’re gonna beat the beat until we beat the beat,” like some stupid ass thing they would say, but imagine like Jesse Eisenberg doing his delivery. He’s like, he’s like, “We’re going to get out there and we’re going to beat the beat and we’re not going to stop beating the beat until the beat is beat,” you know, that sort of thing. Like, so it was that kind of thing. And it was just amazing because it just showed me that like the side of celebrities where they could just really like let their hair down and just do something really loose and silly and It was so popular they bought it back like two more times and then people wanted to do it because they’d seen it and they enjoyed the first time.
That’s always great. It’s super hard when you’re a writer to get one of those pieces where it recurs and it just can lend itself.
It’s really hard.
Some of your favorite Daily Show pieces that you worked on, I know that you worked with Lewis Black on, it was a rant on congressman’s attempts to use the web.What was it like working with Lewis?
Lewis is a dream and the funny thing is, for a guy who’s so like, hard edge. He’s like the biggest teddy bear. Like he’s such a sweetheart. I actually got him to do some other projects for me, uh, on the side. And he would always say yes to stuff. Um, there was something I wanted him to tape that he was so busy, he was like moving out or something like that. But he said, “If you meet me at my storage locker, I’ll do a tape pre tape for you for five minutes.” Like, I mean, imagine like being nice enough to like offer that instead of just like, “You know what? I’m busy. I got a thing.” So he was super nice. But the funny thing is, he wouldn’t really come in to work with you. He would just come in and do the thing. But his voice was so specific, so unique, that everybody could lock into his voice. And so, like, and the way The Daily Show worked was, every day you’d have a different assignment. Sometimes you’d write the headlines at the top, the news story at the top. Sometimes you’d write the correspondent dialogue with the anchor. And sometimes you would write those specialized pieces like the Lewis Black or John Hodgman or people like that. So anytime like someone was working on a Lewis Black, like you’d have two people working on. per piece, you walk down the halls and you hear people going like, idiot, like, and you see them doing like the, your listeners can’t see this, but I’m doing like the clenched fist to the heavens thing he does, like that iconic thing he does.People were doing that just to like, you know, just seeing, so you just notice, oh, they’re working on a Lewis Black piece. I get it. It was a normal thing in our workday.
Probably took the interns a little bit of time to realize that. You also worked with Larry Wilmore on, um, Is America Ready for a Black President? What was it like working with him on that piece?
Ah right. So spoiler alert. We weren’t. Uh, sorry to reveal that. Uh, but, um, uh, yeah, this was 2008. It was actually a kind of a dream because, um, I’d been a long admirer of Larry Wilmore’s career as a writer producer, you know, uh, tons of shows. I knew his name really well, and he’s just somebody I’d always want to work with, you know, on his staff. And then he wanted to get into performing and comedy and stuff. So he reached out to The Daily Show, and I think he pitched this idea of him going on as their black correspondent. And so this was in 2008. It was when Obama was running the first time. And there was this sort of cliche, you know, The Daily Show would pick up on cliches that all the news was parroting, was parroting. And it was like, “Is America ready for a black president,” which is a bit condescending, basically in two directions, honestly. That’s the kind of thing we like to make fun of. And so we went around taking that like ultra seriously and like, you know, quizzing people on whether they thought America would blow up if we had a black president and you know, how, how black a president, like what level of melanin in his skin would we be ready for that kind of stuff. Uh, so that was cool because the producer on that, Glenn Clements, who has since gone on to be one of James Corden’s right hand people, he does Carpool Karaoke.
I know he’s a great guy and has been so successful. Yeah.
I think he directed part of the Olympics opening ceremony.
Oh, he did. He was there for that.
Yeah. Yeah. Right. So. Um, he’s a great guy. He was working on that, and then he got pulled off to do a field piece with Rob Riggle in China. Uh, Rob Riggle went to China, and so obviously that’s a bit taxing and labor intensive. So he had to go work on that. Like, sometimes the field producers are juggling a couple pieces, but he got, he had to go work on that fully. So, so what the way the field pieces work was like the writers would pitch a few ideas for, you know, the comedians are kind of like all have a skill, have a background in improv, The Daily Show correspondents do. Yeah. So they’re good and they’re good on their feet, but you also come, you send them out with what are called wild lines, which are like, here’s some jokes or some ideas you could use, keep them in the back of your head. So they have some ideas and they can decide how to deploy them or not to. So the writers would help pitch that. Um, then they go out and film and then they come back and then sculpt a piece. And then the writer usually sits with the producer, looks at the footage and figures out like what the piece actually is and where to add more gags like graphics and music and stuff like that. So I was sitting in with Glenn on this piece as they were producing it. And then Glenn got pulled into China and he said, “You’re going to have to take it over and produce it”. Which was amazing for me because the writers there didn’t really get to do that very much. Um, at Conan, if you pitch something, you produce it all the way through from soup to nuts. Like you pitched it, you liaised with all the departments, you directed it, you like, you looked at storyboards, like you did everything. At Daily Show, you basically were just writers and then production was separate. And I was, this was also pretty early in my career. So to get like, you know, credit being produced and especially like a really cool, I think, resonant piece that was really fun and with a guy that I, you know, I, I’d really admired. So it was a great, like, opportunity for me to, like, grow my skills. And kind of take ownership, uh, of something that I’d only been kind of like a partial participant in until then.
You’re teaching late-night writing, correct? I mean, you’ve been doing this for so long. It makes sense. Helping so many people. Um, can people just sign up or is it?
Yes, I’m teaching. I’m teaching late-night writing at Loyola Marymount University Film School, which is actually, you may not have heard about it, but it’s actually like Top, is ranked the 5th best film school in the country right now, and the students are really good. The talent level is really high, but it’s this little, um, it’s a Jesuit University. It’s in the wetlands of L.A., like pretty near the water. It’s a wild location. But anyway, it’s this great film school. What happened was a previous writer, Guy Nicolucci, you might know.
Conan.
He was on The Daily Show first, actually, and then he was on Conan. So I’ve been sort of following him. He had been teaching there, and then he got a job teaching in New Jersey at Montclair State. This was in 2018 when Conan went to half hour, and I wasn’t part of that writing staff anymore. And I was looking for new things to do. And he said, “Hey, I’ve got to move, but they need a writer. Do you want to take over this classroom? Because you have the experience.” I was like, “I don’t teach. I don’t know how to teach any of this stuff. And I’m scared of students.” But he had, like, he had a curriculum he worked out a bit, and as I said, the students are actually very talented. They’re, they were very nice. And I, I really enjoyed it. So now I’m in my, I want to say 9th semester teaching. Yeah, it’s been like 5 years almost, I think, uh, teaching it. So…
That’s fantastic. You seem always doing, you’re doing all these other projects. One of them I wanted to mention it’s godsgang.com. What is that?
Well, the. com is just the website, but it’s a, um, we’re trying to create this. So this isn’t my idea, but I’m the head writer for it. This Israeli entrepreneur, uh, used to work for Disney and has made his money in tech, uh, wanted to create a show that was sort of like Power Rangers. But where the four heroes are all from the four major faith groups, and they’re all buddies, and they kind of go around in a Scooby Doo van, kicking butt, like fighting aliens and bad guys and stuff like that, as a kind of a way of like teaching kids and families about like tolerance and like, “Why can’t we all just get along and work together and put our differences aside?” And he had this, he’d had this concept of this, he hired a marketing team, he made some character art, he had some ideas for it. Didn’t have a writer, but a mutual friend of mine. Uh, recommended me because he knew I had some interest in religion. And I just really just thought it was a great idea. Like, not just a good thing for the world, but just like really creative and different. A lot of, you know, animation ideas kind of have us sometimes, sometimes have a similar template or, you know, there’s not that many good ideas. So just something like this, I’d never heard of. And I thought this is really interesting and it could have worldwide appeal, which is important nowadays as well. And so, you know, it’s been a fun thing. So, so, so we wrote, uh, so I wrote the pilot and he raised investment capital to film it. And what they decided was a topic, a show about religion is a topic that’s too a bit controversial for studios and streamers. You know, religion can be very dicey. So if we weren’t walking to Netflix with that, they’re going to be like, “That’s a little touchy for me. I don’t know about religion.” You know, we make it complaints, et cetera. So instead, they had the strategy of putting the pilot online and letting people respond to it, to show that there’s an audience for it. And then when they get enough love, then turn around and show the buyers that look, people are really into this. Yeah. And I think it’s worked, uh, because they’ve got like over a million and a half subscribers in YouTube and Mark, I hope you’re sitting down. Are you sitting down?
I am.
I can see almost all of the YouTube comments are nice.
Whoa. Oh my gosh.
I know. Scrape your, scrape your exploded cranium off the ceiling. But, um, yeah, people like that.
That’s refreshing.
I got a… People like it. People are like, we need this. Yeah. And we’re getting like thousands a day and stuff like that. So I think it’s, I think they were on the right side of us. It’s also been really nice. I think with all the stuff in the world to be part of something that’s like beyond just making people laugh, like something that could actually, you know, influence a child or an adult for good.
That’s fantastic. Before we go, do you have any Norm Macdonald stories over at Conan?
Oh, you know, I don’t. I mean, like, his clips on Conan, like, you can’t beat, like, you know, his, his, his moth story. Like, you know, you can’t beat that.
He was the best guest on, on those shows.
The only thing I’ll say about him is that, uh, I think he was one of those people that, like, I mean, Conan was, like, cool with everybody, like, he was comfortable, but, like, there’s obviously people he’d rather be on with. You know, he’s very type A, so he gets like, very intense about the show being good, despite the, the, the Brian Kiley guitar stuff, he takes it very seriously. But like, when someone like Norm was on, you would just see him relax, like, he was just like, I don’t know what this is gonna be, but I’m just gonna buckle in as a passenger, just go for the ride, like, it was this different vibe that came over him, I thought that was really cool too. It was kind of like Dennis, Dennis Miller was that way when, um, when David Spade would come on. Because they had this like, they had this, they had this vibe.
Spudly, he would come on Spudly.
Yes, you do Spudly, yes. They would just, they would, and Carvey too, like, you know, they would, they would just have this, this bond that you just tell that they were just going to get in this, get in this, get in this ride together and just see where it went. And it was just like pure fun for them. And that was really nice. There’s a bit of a contrast from the usual kind of like, you know, more thoughtful programmatic way that the show is put together. It was just like, we’re going to go along for this comedy, right? And we don’t know what it’s going to be, but it’s going to be great.
Yeah, this has been fun. Good luck with everything. And thank you for all of this, um, that we got to do this. And, um, yeah, I wish you the best of luck.
Yeah. Thanks. Can I just make a quick plug?
Please.
Just to recap that point. So this thing we’re doing with God’s Gang, the only way that we’ll get a show like this on the air and I stand by it. Like, if you like my comedy, you’ll like it. Like it’s, it’s legit funny and it’s good action. But if you want to see something like this in the world, like the only way we’ll do it is if they get a ton of likes and all that on the on the YouTube channel. So if you’re at all intrigued by what I said, go to godsgang.com. You can even… there’s a short, small episode that three minutes and there’s a 12 minute pilot. Just watch one of those. And even if even if you don’t hate it, just get on the like because You know, whether I work for it or not, it just needs to be in the world. So give, give that a look, please. And please give it like
Positivity!
I sound like a YouTuber: ”Smash that like button, bro!”
Uh, well, yeah, that’s great. Thank you. Um, just for sharing your life and you’re seriously, I’ve known you for a long time. One of the nicest, most supportive people, whenever I’ve needed anything or like ideas to bounce or around and stuff. You were always been there.
Oh, my God. Did the same man. We’re too nice for this world. Both of us are.
Oh, yeah. Just trying to get through. Rob Kutner. Thank you so much for talking with us. This was fun.
This was a blast. As always talking with you is.
