Best known as the creator and executive producer of the Emmy-winning comedy series Monk (and its recent follow-up feature film), Andy Breckman’s late-night roots go back to the very start of Late Night with David Letterman, where he served as a writer for two years before accepting a staff writing position at Saturday Night Live.
At SNL, he shares (with Jim Downey) the distinction of being one of only two writers to write for the show under both Lorne Michaels and Dick Ebersol. Among his greatest hits at the show are Eddie Murphy’s “White Like Me,” which he both wrote and directed, “Japanese Game Show,” and “The Amazing Alexander.”
But as he tells Mark Malkoff in this episode of Inside Late Night, it’s winning his “celebrity feud” with Don McLean (of “American Pie” fame) that may Andy Breckman’s proudest professional achievement.
Also: Breckman describes standing next to Lorne Michaels during a guest writing stint as both watched Damon Wayans perform the sketch that got him fired, and tells his side of the story about the time Norm Macdonald returned to guest-host SNL and was shunned by the show’s staff for including several cracks about the show not being funny in his opening monologue.
Plus, an update on Downey Wrote That, the upcoming Jim Downey documentary that Breckman helped executive produce for Lorne Michaels.
Click the embed below to listen now, or find Inside Late Night on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Show Transcript
Mark Malkoff: Andy Breckman, thanks for talking with us.
Andy Breckman: My my pleasure. It’s a dream come true for both of us.
It it really is. Yes. So when you drop out freshman year of Boston University, I know your mom is really upset. And then just a couple years later, she’s watching the Macy’s Thanksgiving Parade in 1979, and Ed McMahon introduces you.
Yeah.
How does this all happen? And what were your mom’s thoughts with all of this?
That’s when it all peaked. What was my mom’s thoughts? I can’t tell you that, but I will tell you this. I you know, you’re referring to in the first job I had, it was I was ready for a kid’s show. 19.
It was 79.
79. You probably know better than me. And, it’s called Hot Hero Sandwiches on NBC in in the mid mid afternoon on Saturdays. It was there. It was a, Saturday Night Live type of sketch show for tweens, for young adults. Anyway, I was, I was a performer on the show, and they asked me to promote the show by appearing in the Macy’s Day Parade. And I remember the night before, telling my, my wife, my my then-wife, Mary, I remember telling her very seriously, “This is gonna change everything. You know, after tomorrow I won’t be able to walk down the street. You know? I mean, this is this is it. I mean, this is this is a whole new kind of life. Are we ready for this?” I remember telling Mary that. And, of course, of course, it changed nothing.
I mean, you’re 24 years old. You’re you’re in the Thanksgiving parade. Ed McMahon introduces you.
Yeah.
And then Yeah. With this TV show, it was interesting because you played roles in it. You played “The Puberty Fairy.”
Wait. Wait. Wait. What that what kind of research have you done? This is, I was gonna say it’s scary, but it’s not really scary. It’s more sad, than you know, it’s it’s…
(Laughs) Sad.
I just wanna give you, I just wanna give you a big hug.
I’ve had worse.
I hear it. You should be playing Frisbee outside with your beautiful wife.
Yes. Maybe after. I was gonna mention, Hot Hero Sandwich. You have people like Richard Pryor coming on. You have Henry Fonda, Barbara Walters. People you wouldn’t think about maybe with kids TV, like Robert Blake. Are you working with, for example, Richard Pryor when he’s coming in?
I eventually worked with Richard Pryor, but, the show was, it was NBC had to check off. They had to do some public service, x number of hours a week, public service. So the show had that element to it, and it had a psychiatrist… a psychologist, I’m sorry, interviewing famous actors about their childhoods. That was the format. And then, and then there were sketches, and then there were songs. I I supplied some of the songs. I’m actually very proud of the show, and it was a great first job. You know, I went into that show as a songwriter. That’s how I got the gig. They saw me performing in in New York. But I left the show with writing credentials. You know, I wrangled my way onto the writing staff there. So I became a sketch writer on that show. So it was a it was an important show for me, and I, there’s somebody there’s a guy online now that’s, that cataloging the show, and and, he’s assembled the footage and clips of the show. It’s called Hot Hero Sandwich. And, it’s really fun for me to go back and look at those.
So you win an Emmy for this kids show.
Not well, there there’s a it’s a daytime Emmy, which they give out as door prizes. You know? They sort of hand them out at the door, with the gift bags. It was, but it was it meant a lot to me. It impressed my in laws. Does that count?
It certainly does. So you win at this Daytime Emmy, and then you actually signed with Columbia Records in January of 1981, and you, so you have a record deal with Columbia. You went on the TV show that I used to watch on Nickelodeon all the time called Live Wire. It was afternoons with Fred Newman, and you were on with The Ramones. That was your episode.
Well, you’re exactly right. I mean, except for signing with Columbia, you’re you you it’s you’re pretty accurate. I did not.
Is that not true? The Columbia thing is there’s nothing true about that? It said in the newspaper.
No. I’m sure I’m sure Mark, I’m sure I’d remember. I mean, it’s a huge thing to celebrate Colombia. And I’m sure I’m sure I would have made notes about it, and I’d probably have an album, wouldn’t I, by now if I had signed with Columbia 50 years ago? Oh, you know what? Oh, you know what? Oh, I’m sorry…
It said in the newspaper!
No. No. No.Here’s what. Boy, this is very funny. Now this will show that you’re you’re you’re overzealous with your research. This is actually an early instance of fake news. At some point early on as a as… oh, my manager at the time asked me to write a biography. That’s what it was. And so I wrote a brief biography marking all the little events that happened in my life up till that point. And then unlike most most, biographies, I continued on, into the future. I didn’t just stop, at, at 1982, whenever I was writing it. I I I continued on and projected ahead. So I had a fake bio. Maybe maybe it ended up online. I did not sign with Columbia. There was a little record company called Gadfly, that released a couple of albums of mine.
Okay. So the Columbia thing was a was…
No. I’m almost positive I’d remember. I’ll check I’ll check when I get home. Okay. Because I I have a bunch of records on the shelf, and I’ll look to see if any of them are mine. But I don’t think they are mine. But I don’t think they’re mine.
So, you win the daytime Emmy…
Wait. Wait. Who recorded who wrote and recorded “Sound of Silence?” Was that me?
I think it was.
Oh, no. No. That was no. No. No. That was Paul Simon in the no. No. That wasn’t me. I did not record with Columbia.
Not yet. But I will point this out…
“Not yet!” Oh, jeez.
I will point this out, though. People do cover your songs. There’s people all over YouTube that have recorded your songs.
That’s true. I had oh god. You, you know
It’s true!
You’ve gotta get outside, fella. People do cover yeah. I had a couple of songs, one in particular that some people that seemed to stick and, and people covered. I get a check from BMI. Do you wanna know how much I get every year? Are you curious?
No. But tell me, anyway. I’m being polite.
Okay. You’re not curious, but tell me. That’s there’s an interviewer for you. “I’m gonna confess I’m not curious.” I get, I get a $150 a year from my songwriting. Most of that is from stuff that I wrote that ended up on TV, at SNL, or various shows.
Residuals are good. Residuals are good.
Residuals are fine. I get to take I get to take my wife to the diner.
Yes. Olive Garden. Andy Breckman. At the Olive Garden.
Yeah. How’s this going, by the way, so far?
No. It’s going great. I’ve been wanting to talk to you forever.
You’ve said I’m your favorite guest you’ve ever had. Would you say that?
Sure.
Oh, thank you very much.
After Robert Smigel, after David Cross, after Margaret Cho…
That means a lot to me. Thank you, Mark.
So how is it possible that you you’re going on television. You had just written for this TV show that you start working at a video store in 1981.
I started working for a video store. That’s right. It was called “Video to Go” on 8th Street. It was one of the first video stores in, in New York, probably in the country. It was it was such a new, technology that we had a customer come in, rent a couple of videotapes, and then take them, leave with leave the store with them and then call 20 minutes later and say, “Okay, I have the tapes. I’m in my I’m in my apartment. Where in the TV do I stick the tapes?” (Laughs.) She didn’t know she needed a machine. So I any I, I did have Hero Sandwich, which was my first big credit, first credit network credit. And then I wrote, then I was out of work. I thought “Well, that was fun. That was a… I’m a flash in the pan. My career’s over.” I wrote, oh, I’m sorry. Along the way, I got an agent. I got I signed with CAA. I’m sorry. I signed with ICN, years ago. And I wrote five sketches for Saturday Night Live, a “a packet,” they call it. You’ve heard that phrase. And, and I submitted it. It was the year you’re a SNL guy. It was the year after, it was the Jean Doumanian year, after Lorne left.
1980.
1980. Right?
Do you know if your packet was actually read? Because that doesn’t necessarily mean if you submit it, that it’s gonna…
I did. I know it was read, because I got a very sweet… well, they passed on me. They didn’t they didn’t hire me. But I got a very sweet letter from Anne Beatts, who was one of the original writers, and I think she stayed on with Jean Doumanian. I wish I still had a copy of that. Maybe I do somewhere. It was very encouraging, but it was not a job offer. It was it was less than a job offer, but more than, more than being ghosted. And I ended up working, so I took a day job. I was at the video store. And unbeknownst to me, my agent at the time, sent that same packet, those same five sketches to, Merrill Markoe and David Letterman, who were at the time, you probably know this maybe better than me. They were in…. Letterman was in limbo. He was being held he was being sort of on hold at NBC. They were trying to figure out what to do with him, and they were paying him, they were paying him just to stand by, you know, while they put a late night show together. And they were putting a, a writing staff together. And I had no idea that there was a show, a Late Night with Letterman show being planned or in production or in preproduction. I had no idea it was all happening. I had no idea that my stuff was being submitted to them. And I got a call. It’s kind of the dream, everybody’s dream, Hollywood story. Might be your dream too, young Mark. I got a call. I’m at work. I’m behind the counter. How about this for a phone call, kids? All you need is one good phone call per lifetime, really, and you’ve got a career. The phone rings, and it’s my, it’s my girlfriend, soon to be wife, and she says, “Hey. David Letterman’s looking for you.” They read… Merrill Markoe had read the packet. They were in New York for one day. They were at the Plaza Hotel for one day, one day only, looking, meeting writers. And it was already mid-afternoon. And they said if I could get up to the Plaza Hotel, you know, within the next hour, they’d love to meet me. It happened that quickly. It was… I had no preparation at all. It really was like, “Eddie, can you man the counter? I have to go.” It really was like that. I left right from work, ran to the subway and went up to the Plaza Hotel to meet Merrill Markoe and David Letterman.
The version I heard, and tell me if this is right or this is wrong, it’s it was a gazillion years ago, is that Letterman was only going to be there with Merrill the next day and that you stayed up all night to write a Letterman packet and you needed your wife to wake up and type it. It was 4 AM and you changed the clocks in your apartment to say 6:30 so she wouldn’t be mad at you.
No, so she would get up and type it for me. Yes. Yes. I mean, my wife needed I needed my wife to type it. No. That’s exactly right. I I met I met Merrill Markoe, and and, I met the man. I met Letterman, and, they told me what about the show that they hope to do. They, you know, Merrill really had it worked out in her head because it was it was basically the morning show, you know, you know, with with tweaks and, you know, so they basically had done it. The morning show was almost a dry run for the… But they knew what they wanted. I wasn’t a sketch show, so my packet didn’t really wasn’t enough to, get me the gig. And you’re exactly right. I knew they were leaving the next day, and I I went home and pulled an all-nighter and got a packet to them that the night by dawn the next day. I went up back to the Plaza Hotel, and gave my packet to them.
When you did meet them, because they had to meet you briefly, did you hesitate at all when you took the change, there’s all that change on the table, and you put it in your pocket without saying anything?
Oh, that is true. I didn’t know that’s exactly where the hell are you getting all this from? I must’ve. Because that could have gone either way, but Dave found it very funny. No. Seriously, I. no. I I do have to ask you. Have you bugged my living room or something? This is just spooky.
I cannot confirm or deny anything, Andrew.
But It’s true that when I walked in, they were they were in this suite at the Plaza Hotel, and I do have this memory. My memory is not good, but I do have this memory of Letterman on the couch. And, there was a coffee table in front of them. There was spare change on the coffee table. And the first thing I said was, “Hey, can I have this?” And I swept up the change of the coffee table, and I and I put it in the, I put it in my pocket, and I never mentioned it again. And he never mentioned it. I don’t know if that was a point against me or point for me, but or I did I did I endear myself to the man? But I don’t know. And I don’t know where I got the chutzpah to do it, but, that is true. (Laughs.)
But you you you get the gig. And for the first 13 weeks, the cycle, you don’t get anything on. Was there, were there any other writers that did not get anything on, or were you the only writer?
It’s a good question. Wait. That’s right. It was a 13 week cycle, which I think, in some cases, is still the case. It’s still the norm for for some late night staff writing. You’re on a 13 week cycle. They could let they could cut you loose after every 13 weeks you’re up for renewal, which keeps you on your toes, the boys and girls. And did was there anybody else? That’s right. I went 13 weeks throwing sh*t against the wall and nothing was sticking. I was trying to figure out his voice. You know, I’m trying to get Letterman’s voice in my head. Some people were having, better luck. I’m sorry. More success than me. Not luck, of course. And there were other writers who were who were struggling. I think some writers were let go that first cycle. If I recall, I don’t, I’m glad I don’t recall their names. I don’t wanna embarrass anyone. But Merrill Markoe, my boss, the head writer, called a a few days before the 13 week cycle was up and reassured me that, that I was doing okay. And the first thing I got on the air, the first thing I got on the air was, a bumper. They used to have bumpers as they went to commercials. I don’t know if you remember this, where they they had little messages written out, and the first thing I got on was a bumper. As I went to commercial, that said “To Mary, I’m sorry.” It was to my wife. It was an apology. I I asked I asked them to apologize, over the air that night. So she she saw it that night.
I thought it was so interesting that you, you struggled in the beginning, but then Merrill leaves as head writer, and they offer it to you. And you’re the head writer for like less than 24 hours, is it?
Yeah. I was head writer for for 3 and a half hours.
Before Downey came in.
Yeah. I get well, they but, Yeah. That was actually just before they brought Downey in. I I was a I was a trial balloon. They ran me up the flagpole.
You just didn’t want the gig. A lot of people…
Well, there was some resistance from the other writers, you know, which I understandably, I would have probably felt the same. And I immediately as soon as there was any resistance at all, I withdrew my name from, from consideration. I just didn’t, you know, who the hell would want the job if, if everybody wasn’t happy to see you every you know, in the morning? Yeah. I I it was a dream job, and I didn’t wanna I didn’t wanna jeopardize it at all. I was so happy being just, you know, in the just among the… in in in the trenches with every with the rest of the guys.
That’s what I was gonna say. It seems like a dream job. I mean, Dave lets you perform on the show. You do your puke song because somebody canceled. So you get to do, that’s February of ‘83. You get to be hanging out with Jerry Garcia. You’re a musician. It seems like the dream job.
Well, of course, it’s oh my god. It is a dream job. It’s such a dream job that Merrill, who was Letterman’s girlfriend, and and also the head writer, when she when she couldn’t be head writer anymore, when it was just too much for her to to wear both hats, she she became she demoted herself and became just another writer. You know, she became a writer on the writing staff, and Jim Downey came in as head writer. But it was such a dream job that Merrill Markoe could not walk away. You know, nobody could walk away the for those first two years.
Why would you leave? If you’re having such a good time, was SNL just always the dream?
Well, SNL well, as, you know, SNL has a special place in the in the in the zeitgeist, in the culture. It’s, for a lot of writers, the, even now, I’m sure a lot of your audience listening, it’s it’s the goal. You know? It’s it’s the it’s the dream gig. Why did I leave? After 2 years, most of the writers it was it was, the writing staff was me, Gerry Mulligan, and and five lads from Harvard that had that knew each other, and and some of them had worked with Lorne before. And they all, including Jim Downey, at the 2-year mark, they all left to go follow Lorne to do The New Show, which I’m sure you remember, was a primetime sketch show that everyone had high hopes for. So all the all the cool kids were going with Lorne. And I meanwhile, I was getting offers from SNL, which was right upstairs. It was in the same building. And so I decided I guess I thought and they were offering me a, you know, substantial raise. And and I guess I thought, “Well, everyone else is leaving. I guess that’s what you do. You work 2 years at a gig, and then you you you take another gig.” I, you know, it just seemed like everyone else all my friends were leaving, and it was time to go. And I was not invited to The New Show, but I did get this invitation from SNL. And so I went I went upstairs.
Did you sense that he was a little hurt that all of you
Oh, sure. Oh my gosh. Well, who wouldn’t be stung by it? Everybody you know, I mean, for a lot of people, it was our first break, our first gig, and you expect some kind of loyalty. And I feel, in hindsight, feel horrible. I think he had a very strong feeling about Jim Downey leaving. Jim had been there about a year, one year. No. It was, in hindsight, it was probably a mistake and inconsiderate. But I was, I was a kid, and and they were dangling, you know, real money in front of me. Late Night at the time, just to remind you, this was what year was it, Mark, when when all this happened?
Premiered February 1, 82.
82. Late Night at the time was still a sort of a well a sort of a well-kept secret. You know, college kids were watching in their dorms.You know, I I the numbers were very small. And by the way, that time slot was no man’s land, you know, at the time. It was the middle of the night on weekdays. So so going to SNL felt like I was I was I was really moving into, you know, into prime time. I was I was moving up a tier.As soon as we left, the Letterman show exploded, and he was on the cover of Rolling Stone and and, all over, and invited to host various shows. And, his profile was raised, and it it… the show exploded in 83, 84. As soon as we left, maybe maybe there’s a cause and effect there. “As soon as Andy Breckman left, it seemed to just take off.” But at the time, it it was, it felt like, it I was getting promoted.
I mean, you go over to Saturday Night Live, season premiere. Brandon Tartikoff is hosting, October of 83.
Yeah. That’s right. That’s right, pal. Yeah.
And your first sketch that you get on, and this really makes me laugh, and only you would do this. You actually went on the show as yourself. There was a sketch called Larry’s corner. It’s with…
Yeah.
…Gary Kroeger and Brad Hall.
Yeah. You’re right. It was my first show, my first sketch on SNL.
Can you describe it for people?
Well, it was it was a guy that, when he laughed, milk came out of his you know, when he was if he was drinking a liquid, if he was drinking milk, milk would come out of his nose when he laughed. And and the joke was, that in the in the sketch live on the air, I thought it’d be funny to have gallons of milk come out of come out of, the character’s nose, just gallons if they could pump it. I thought that would be really fun to see live on the air. And I wrote the sketch, and it involved a fake nose and prosthetics. It involved running a tube, you know, over somebody’s head and having a fake, a lot of prosthetics in order to pump all the the gallons of milk, live onto the stage, you know, on on, on SNL. Because it would take hours and hours to get into that makeup, literally hours. No cast member could do it, you know, because they had, obviously, they had other sketches to do. And so it was I don’t know how it was decided. I don’t I don’t even remember volunteering for it, but it was decided that I would put on that prosthetic and that, you know, all the makeup, and I would play, the guy who, the guy who is just, spewing milk out of his nostrils.
Into a cup. Into a cup, I’d wanted to mention.
I believe it was into a cup, and then it was into somebody’s mouth and all over the floor. And it was really it was you know, I’ve been writing comedy now, for, 93. This is my 93rd year writing comedy, and it probably was the biggest live laugh I ever was responsible for. I’m not… It’s not the it’s not the laugh I’m proud of, though, But it was it was really something to see, I’m sure, in the audience, you know, to see live happening. That you know? And I do have a tape of that, and I could show my you’re so interesting. None of my kids are interested in seeing this stuff. None of them. I should invite you and your wife over, Mark.
We’d love to. We’ll do a double date.
Yeah. No. You’re invited over. I can’t, and I can’t get my kids to watch any of this, but I do have it all, I do have tapes of, most of that stuff.
No. I I’d love that. What was the difference between… Because you and Downey were the only two, I believe, that worked under both Ebersol and Lorne Michaels.
Yeah.
What was what was the biggest difference producing wise between the two?
Well, I well, Dick Ebersol was not a a comedy guy, not a not a former writer like Lorne. And I, he didn’t trust his comedic instincts the way Lorne deservedly trusts his comedic instinct. And for me, the biggest difference was, you know, Ebersol would defer to certain staff members completely. He didn’t he didn’t didn’t insist on, on having his way, if, if there was any resistance at all. The the one exception might be Larry David, who tells very funny stories about clashing with Dick Ebersol. But, you know, Dick Ebersol famously, brought in Billy Crystal and Christopher Guest and, Marty Short and deferred to them completely. Those guys pretty much got what they wanted, to get on on the air on the air.
That was an incredible year. I mean, it still holds up, and you got to write some really funny, memorable films that people still talk about.
That’s right. My second year… that’s right. My second year, I was make I was directing and making short films. I guess now it’s it’s pretty common to see on SNL. But at the time, it was an unusual situation. It was just a way when I was renegotiating my second year. It was a way for my agent to get me more money, to be honest with you, because every all the writers were favored nations. All the writers were getting paid the same, and I was asking for more money.
So you get to direct, and you’re getting paid paid more. Probably the most famous one I mean, you directed a bunch that are well known, but Eddie Murphy comes back to host in 84. This is December, and you do you direct “White Like Me.” Eddie Murphy is this huge movie star. I remember meeting a paparazzi person who told me that Eddie was so big at the time that paparazzi were actually following him around. They realized that this was Eddie Murphy in in disguise.
Yeah. Yeah. He was the biggest movie star in the country at the time. He had a he had a couple huge hits already and and came back to host. I had written “White Like Me” about a, about an African American, guy going around as an experiment, going around, in white face. It was, of course, a parody of, of “Black Like Me.” And I but I had written it for Jesse Jackson, who hosted a few months earlier. You may know the date better than me. And Jesse actually Jess I call him Jesse. What what do you call him?
Reverend. Reverend Jackson.
Reverend Jackson. Yeah. The Reverend actually considered the sketch and huddled with his entourage, and they actually debated whether or not. He was a viable presidential candidate at the time, and they actually debated whether or not he should go out in white face. But they passed on it, and, but and I kept the sketch in my drawer and took it out when Eddie Murphy came came around. And I did direct that, that piece. Yeah.
Is that one of those things where at at the host you meet the host on Mondays that you just pitch right then and there, or is it Tuesday during the writing? Do you go up to Eddie Murphy and say, “I have this idea for you,” or how does that work?
It’s a well, it’s a good… I kinda knew him because I was there with Ebersol those 2 years and he was there for was he there for both years? He might have been there for a year, and then there was 1 year, that very strange hybrid year where he was there live for half the shows. Have you heard this story?
About how they had to pretape some of the sketches?
Yeah. They pretaped half the sketches before the season, and then he was there live for half the season. That’s how big he was. He could negotiate that deal.
Yeah. Like the attic sketch that you wrote. You wrote the Dutch couple… elderly.
Yes. That’s true. I wrote the attic sketch, and that was pretaped. That probably that technically was the first SNL.
Tell the premise. It’s on it is on YouTube. Tell the premise.
That is on YouTube?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just watched it.
I was just talking to somebody about it. Well, the premise is it was the premise is it was a a couple in Amsterdam, an old couple in Amsterdam sitting around reminiscing about World War 2. World War 2 had been over. It was over, of course, 40 years ago. And the husband says to the wife, “I never asked you.’ Oh, and it turned out they had they had hidden a family of Jews in the attic during the war. And the husband says to the wife, this is 1980, 40 years later, “Hey, I never asked you. What was their reaction when you went upstairs and told them the war was over and they could go home?” And then the wife says, “Oh, wait. Hold on. I’m sorry. I I thought you told them the war was over.” And they realized that the family of Jews is still upstairs at the end.
Yeah. Eddie Murphy is up there in Piscopo and Mary Gross.
Oh, that’s right. It’s one of the one of the classic Anne Frank sketches. Anne Frank is just its fount of comedy, of course.
Yes. In 1984, what was the thought process in having the host do “Weekend Update?” You had Jesse Jackson do Update. You had Bob Uecker, George Carlin, Ed Asner.
Wow. I don’t know. I I I don’t know who was who was doing Update normally, and who did they who did they sub for?
They didn’t have anyone. They had no… in the beginning, they had the host do Update, and then they had, Billy Crystal as Fernando do Update with Julia Louis Dreyfus.
Wow. No. This is I had no idea.
And then Michael McKean hosts, and they have Edwin Newman do Update. And then finally, Chris Guest, who does the rest of the season.
Edward Newman makes sense. Of course, he was a, you know, veteran newscaster, and Chris Guest makes sense. He kinda has that persona. You can see..
I guess they just wanted to play around with the format.
I guess they did. I mean, that was Dick Ebersol… maybe an an example of him not being sure, not not having the confidence of his own convictions, you know? You know, he just he couldn’t commit to a host. I I don’t know. I didn’t remember that. Between you and me and and, your 50,000 listeners, I was married with kids then, and I used to sneak out as soon as my sketch was over. And so… and I didn’t go to the after parties. I’m not a drinker. I don’t… I’m not a partier. I would often miss, the second half of the show, between you and me. I I had this one I actually sometimes I’ve I had a show sometimes at the at the end of the show, and I would leave even before that. I would sneak out. I was just so anxious to get home. It’s a long week.
The hours, yes. I’d only heard of one other writer that I know that would sneak out to do stand up. He would leave after Update. Just he wasn’t getting stuff on anyway.
Oh, okay. Well, I mean, it’s designed… it’s not I mean, the job is not designed for for a guy with a young family.
That’s for sure.
Yeah. And I had… I had 2 young kids. There was one moment. I’ll never forget it. I, I was driving home, and I stopped at the toll plaza. Used to have a toll plaza at the you know, as you left the tunnel. And the guy in the toll booth was, was doing his job, and he was watching SNL. He had SNL on in the toll booth. I could see my sketch on on his little TV. I got a glimpse as I drove I drove home for a second. That was really, a moment I have to remember.
Yeah. That must have been surreal. When did Dale Butterworth happen? Did that was that during Letterman or SNL? Because the reason that I know that you wrote a lot of the sketches you did, is because you always use a character named Dale Butterworth, or you reference.
My fans, of course, have come to expect that. That’s trademark. Not gonna disappoint those. Dale Butterworth is, was a a kid who lived in my neighborhood as a from my childhood, and it was it did become my go-to name during Letterman and then into Saturday Night Live. And he actually, I think he appears in a few movie scripts as well. But every writer I know, has a has a go to default name. You know, going forward, it might be fun for you to ask writers if they have.
Yeah. I would love to…
If they have a name that they reuse and who and who those kids were. Dale Butterworth, I I always kinda have expected him to reach out to me. Oh, people people did people from the old neighborhood did reach out to me and did acknowledge, that they that they, you know, clocked me using Dale’s name. But I don’t think Dale himself ever ever did.
In October of 1984, you did “The Bulge” with Jim Belushi. I still was very surprised back then it got past the censors. Did you think that it was gonna actually be able to be televised?
God. I haven’t thought that’s one. That’s one sketch that I do not have a video copy of. I haven’t thought of that in a while.
I couldn’t find it online. It’s probably a music rights issue, but it was, I remember seeing, I’ve seen it before. And, yeah, it’s one of those things where I’m like, “I can’t believe they got away with it.”
I can’t either now that you mention it.
Yeah. He stuffs his pants with tissues.
Yeah. Jim Belushi, he’s in a bar. He’s in a bar. He’s flirting with with some women, and he goes to the bathroom, goes to the men’s room, and he stuffs some to make his to make his pants bulge a little bit. He stuffs some
But it’s a ridiculous amount. I mean, it’s like
Well, I mean, the joke is that he stuffs a little tissue in his pants and and so his pants bulge a little bit, which is something, I swear to you I’ve never done in my life. I don’t even know where I got that, but…
Write what you know. Write what you know, Andy. Write what you know.
Yeah. Exactly. Something I should have done, but I didn’t do. And then the joke is he puts a little tissue. “Why not a little more? As long as I’m here, why not a little more? I’ll put even more. This will impress the ladies.” And he starts going through reams and reams and rolls and rolls of toilet paper, and and then he emerges from emerges from the men’s room with this enormous two-foot long bulging thing in his pants.
It’s so cartoonish that, I guess that’s…
Yeah. Just knocking glasses over and knocking things over. And, of course, my favorite part, if I remember this correctly, is the women just swoon.
And it’s so unattractive how how he appears, and that’s that’s what’s really, really funny.
I did love the beat where the women were not turned off. They were turned on. Yeah. That’s something that, God help me. God forgive me, for that one. You know, at the when I’m at the pearly gates, that’ll be on the list of things I’m asking, “Can you pass on that?”
April of 1985, Howard Cosell comes in, and you you do a a short with him. You do a a film with him. And I remember this from, you know, when when I was a kid, it was the he covers this Olympic event. And what was it?
It was the “Run, Throw, and Catch Like a Girl Olympics.”
And you had Martin Short…
It was it was male athletes, male athletes in the stadium, with judges, you know, like an Olympic event, and they were throwing, like, spastically and throwing, like like, cartoonishly, like a girl might.
Larry David is in it.
Larry David’s in it. I don’t know. I mean, Marty Short came in. I mean, we had.. I don’t Billy Crystal. You know, we I we had the the whole the whole cast come in to throw like a girl.
And then the ladies were, they were, feminist. They were an in airplane bombing.
I guess that was our big our big oh, and, of course, Howard Cosell was covering it like it was a sports event.
Oh, yeah. It I mean, you couldn’t do it now, that whole…
I could try to do it now. I you you can either make the argument now that it’s, it’s funnier now than ever because it’s so damn unwoke. I don’t I I would try to do it now, but I don’t know if it would get I I don’t know if it would get any traction now. But it did end it did end with, a couple of the ladies up in a in a plane overhead dropping a a big bomb.
And then it cuts to, like, war footage, like stock footage.
Yeah. It cuts to a huge explosion. I I should mention, I if I remember correctly, I I wrote that with Jim Downey. So I’m gonna give him half the blame. I’ll take the half the credit.He could have half the blame.
Who are some of your favorite hosts that came in? When you when you were there, I mean, everybody came in. Jerry Lewis, Howard Cosell. I mean…
Well, what happens is at SNL, and I bet it’s still a phenomenon. I bet it’s still true. When there’s a host that you’re excited about meeting and spent you you wanna spend the week with them, and which means you wanna get a sketch at least into dress rehearsal, at least into the rundown. So you you just crank it up. You know, when when when Michael Palin from Monty Python came in, he was on my list, and I wanted to hang with him. In my fantasy, you know, we would become good friends and and do movies together. You know? And and so I, you know, I worked hard. I probably submitted more stuff than I I normally would have and had more stuff in read-through, and I I I worked hard to score on those weeks. So that was one. And then, of course, Ringo Starr. He was in the, fabulous he was one of the fabulous singing Beatles, the four singing Beatles.
But then you have this weird hosts like George McGovern.
Yeah.
And you wrote a sketch called “Bookbeat.” He was a archaeologist, McGovern. And, Brad Hall, I think, was in it. Dale Butterworth. There was another Dale.
That I don’t remember. I remember being on the street with McGovern, and it was the midtown Open, and it was him and Belushi, and they were just golfing their way through Manhattan, as if it was a golf course, just into just hitting balls. Into windows and into crowds. And, he was a very good sport. Was he campaigning at the time, or was it just after the campaign? I don’t remember if he ever was elected president. I don’t have the list in front of me. I didn’t know there’d be a quiz today, Mark.
There there will be. Yes. Multiple choice.
He was, he was the democratic candidate for president, believe it or not, kid. And, it must have been after the election. Right?
Oh, I’m sure.
Yes. It couldn’t have been during. It wasn’t like Jesse Jackson, where it was during the election.
I urge you to go back and look look at your Mr Monopoly sketch with Lovitz, because I know that you remember Damon Wayans taking focus away, but I just watched it on YouTube, and it’s really, really funny. And the the Wayans thing, I didn’t feel he distracted it at all.
You might be seeing the dress rehearsal.
It might have been. They they did this.
Oh, no. They ran the dress rehearsal in in for the West Coast, and then I’m sure in rerun. They would do that for certain… yeah. They would do that. Oh, no. When they were flubbed, then I was I actually was party to some some huge flubs and prop malfunctions, and, and they used to have, 3 hours to, re-edit the show for for LA, and then that became the the the what they put in syndication. You may not have seen the sketch that got him fired.
So you were there under the bleachers with Lorne as it’s going. Damon Wayans makes the choice on air to play, the character flamboyant, gay, which is not, you know, that has nothing to do with the sketch that you wrote.
No. It derailed the sketch. He was just he just had a sort of supporting part in the role in the sketch that. I I should I should explain. I’m sorry. Just to backtrack just ever so slightly. It was this 1985, 1986?
It was it was the 85, 85, season. Yeah. That Anthony Michael Hall.
That’s right. I was coming in as a guest writer. I was coming in just to do a couple of shows. And, I so I didn’t… I, as a guest writer, you’re blissfully unaware of the, the inner cast politics and the tensions, you know, in the on the staff. And I had no idea that he was he was not a happy camper. No idea. I didn’t know him at all. I’ve you know, except to say hello. And, apparently, he was unhappy, and I think something was cut that night at during dress rehearsal. He might tell the story himself. I don’t know. I never heard his version.
He told it in the book, but under the bleachers, Lorne turns to you during the sketch, and he said, what does he say to you?
That’s right. I was watching it with Lorne. He watches the show from under the bleachers. That’s right. At least he did at that time on a monitor. And during the sketch, he turned to me and he looked just shocked, and he looked for and he looked upset. And and he said, “I have to fire him.” You know? Meaning he was given no choice. You can’t let that slide. You know? And that’s just a moment I I won’t forget. And I was at the time, I was pissed off. I came in as a guest writer, and my my sketch was sabotaged. You know? Live live on the air.
I have to say the following year when they everybody comes back, it’s the, you know, bouncing back with Phil Hartman’s first show, and Jan Hooks and Carvey. The ‘86 premiere, you got, I guess it was Dana Carvey and Phil Hartman and Jan Hooks’ first sketch ever that got on. It was the “Game Show Psychic”?
Yeah. I didn’t I didn’t appreciate, yeah, that it was, everyone’s first.
That was really, really funny. That’s on YouTube as well. But it it was a good.
Yeah. That’s a psychic. That’s Dana Carvey as someone that could tell the future, and he was on a game show answering answering questions before they’re even asked. And Jan Hooks was very funny. She was a frustrated, contestant.
Oh, it was so good. And then Phil Hartman, game show host for
My gosh.And then Phil Hartman, what a what a prince. He came in the next day oh, I’m sorry, Monday, and he gave me a little gift, a little thank you gift. He was very grateful for that.
His first sketch.
His first sketch. And and, you know, he went on to to “host” maybe a 100 game shows, you know, at least. In show sketches, and and and did similar characters on The Simpsons, of course, for years too.
After you did “Game Show Psychic,” this is Sigourney Weaver’s hosting this premiere, and this is before Update or or music. The sketch following…
Good God. You’ve seen the show. Yeah. Go ahead.
The sketch after is your “Amazing Alexander” sketch with Jon Lovitz, where, you know, it’s “It was better than Cats.”
Oh, that’s right. Okay. That’s so funny. Okay. I didn’t
You get 2 sketches on the premiere. I’m all I’m saying is you’re doing extremely well.
I guess I I was in a groove. That’s right. “Amazing Alexander” Did I direct that? I don’t think I did. That was that was John Lovitz’s play, the hypnotist who was doing a show on Broadway. And everybody and it was a commercial. It was. It was a it was a commercial for the show, and everybody leaving the theater was clearly in a trance, and they were all raving about the show.
“It was better than Cats.”
They had clearly been hypnotized to rave about the show. That’s right. I haven’t that’s another one I’d love to see, actually. I don’t have…
Oh, it’s so funny. Was Lawrence O’Donnell an actor back then? He’s an extra in it.
Lawrence O’Donnell was a friend of the of, well, Jim Downey’s friend, and that’s still, I think, best friend, and would hang out and would hang out on the floor.
What was he doing then?
He was, oh, he might have been working in in the Senate or or he was might have been working for for Senator Moynihan or or the or or or was just between gigs. But, anyway, he would hang out on the with the writers, and, he was in a couple of sketches of mine. I don’t know if he was in any of Jim’s or other sketches, but then I ended up using him in the other recurring role on the Monk on when I had my series go, he played a judge that would occasionally interact with the with Adrian Monk. So I I yeah. No. He that guy you’re right, Mark. I know what you’re saying. You’re saying that guy owes me big time is what you’re saying.
He does. I bet he’s getting residuals for a 135.
Well, he’s probably getting a few bucks. I’m sure I’m sure he’s, taking his kids out to ice cream with with my money.
You might have done more game shows than almost anybody. I mean, that that sketch that you wrote, “Wedgie Fever” in 1987 for Jon Lovitz?
Oh my God. Wait. Now have you have you seen these sketches, or did you just heard of…
Yea. No, I know… Wedgie Fever? No. It’s it’s it’s so funny, and they have a crane that gets Lovitz.
Yeah. That’s right. I used to torture Lovitz every time I every chance I could.
That’s so funny. “Wedge Fever.”
Yeah. It was a crane hooked up to his underpants, and every wrong answer, they would crank the crane higher, giving him a wedgie. It was a game show called “Wedgie Fever.” And then you realize, as the show goes on, that he’s getting the answers wrong on purpose. He just loves he just loves the sensation.
Lovitz was so funny.
You can’t go wrong with John Lovitz. I, I’m still in touch with him, and we’re actually working on something, currently.
Jack Handey said, “My friend Andy used to have the same slot as me, 15 minutes, to 1 o’clock. We wrote the same kind of stuff. And he said that we both wrote a piece about a guy whose fear was falling through a trap door. So he always wore a cage that would prevent him from falling into the trap door.
He wore what amounted to a petticoat, a giant. That’s right. Well, he’s being generous. I’m sure that was 90% Jack Handey.
Did did it get in?
It might have gotten dress or it might have gotten in. All I remember is, Jack always, like, you know, working with Jack. It was a sheer, you know, an honor and a delight, but I remember I got to draw the pictures on the sketch. I used to I used to draw pictures when we submitted when I submitted sketches. Almost all my sketches had me illustrating the sketch. And, I got to draw a diagram of this contraption this guy would wear. The guy who had just had this had this phobia.
And Handey’s, of course, he he does fall through a trap door. Of course, he does in in in in this sketch. I would say in the top five Chris Farley sketches, “Japanese Game Show” easily in terms of his performance. Some people say Mike Myers, that one of the best things he ever did. So Alec Baldwin is hosting. This is December of ‘94, and you have the Beastie Boys musical guest. You’re you’re a guest writer. You go in. Do you have the sketch already planned out, or are you writing it Tuesday night?
It’s a good question. The guest writer as a guest writer, you have this advantage. You have a few advantages, actually. There’s no grudges against you. Nobody nobody is elbowing your stuff out of the way. Nobody’s mad at you from something you did last week. You come in, you’re the you know, you’re fresh faced. That’s one advantage. But the biggest advantage is, I had months and months and months to think about sketches. And so I could come in with what was in effect 3 or 4 greatest hits. You know? If if you put out an album if you put out a record album every 3 years and it’s only 4 songs, they’re gonna be good songs. So there’s no filler. I came in with 3 or 4 sketches, and the show you mentioned, the Alec Baldwin show, is a show I’m very proud of. I had 3 sketches on that show, 3 sketches, sole credit. And I remember being very proud, and I I don’t I I try to be a modest guy, but there might be a record that might still stand. I mean, 3 sketches with sole credit on them, you know, not co-written is it’s something I was proud of at the time. I can tell you what they were. There was, of course, the Japanese game show.
They did the the the police officers that threw up. That was Fred Wolf, I was I would guess.
No. No. It wasn’t that… Oh, what oh, there might have been something, a Christmas show where the parents, I’m sorry, Christmas sketch where the kids never got any gifts and the parents were baffled as baffled as the kids and the parents, because the parents, like the kids, assumed Santa Claus would come every Christmas. And they just were couldn’t. All of them, the parents and the kids, couldn’t figure it out.
But in in terms of Farley’s performance and Mike Myers, Mike Myers actually learned the Japanese. He learned…
Yes. I when I wrote the sketch, it was just gibberish Japanese, because I well, I thought, “My god. You’re you’re submitting a sketch on Wednesday for read through. No no one’s gonna learn Japanese by Saturday by Saturday, 11:30 PM.” So I just wrote gibberish, assuming that’s what, if the sketch is on, that’s what we’d be doing. And I think what appealed to Mike Myers, and this says a lot about Mike Myers… to his credit. I think what appealed to him, it was an opportunity to really commit to this and learn Japanese in 3 days. And he did. He got a tutor in, and he and he worked on the sketch, and that was real Japanese. They they had to translate my sketch into Japanese, something, of course, I couldn’t do.
It was one of those perfect sketches. I mean, it all came through.
If if we did it, I mean, if it was done now, you know, there were probably apps that would have translated for him, but they had to do it manually line by line. He had to learn it. He learned it phonetically, but then he but when he did when he when he performed it, it was more than just phonetically. He was really delivering the lines as as a host would.
I didn’t know that until years later. That is so Mike Myers. Oh, hardcore.
Oh my god. No. That is that is, that is commitment, and maybe it’s obsessive commitment. You know.
Lots of respect.
Oh, yeah. Lots of yeah. He well and it was a it was a sign of respect to the writer, and I and I really appreciated it. It was amazing to watch. Was Janeane Garofalo in that?
Yeah. It was her last show. No. No. No. George Clooney, a couple of shows later was last, but that was one of her favorite episodes, when Baldwin that was there.
Wait. Wait. Was Janeane gonna. Wait. Was that was there a sketch in that one where “I will stop this car,” where they’re driving?
Yes.
That was in that. Okay. That was mine also. That might have been my pre sketch show.
That’s amazing to get that much in as a guest writer. I mean, that season.
Yeah. Well, I I well, like I told you, I had I had time to to work on the sketches.
Plus, that season was very difficult. I mean, it was Janeane Garofalo, Chris Elliott. It definitely would would be, had a tough time. The following year, I did wanna mention, when Will Ferrell and Cheri Oteri come in and Darrell Hammond. Lorne gets you and Robert Smigel to be there for the very first bunches of of of shows. Robert writes the cold open for show number 1 and 2, and you write, I guess, you get sketches in on 3, 4,5, starting with David Schwimmer, the kids versus the grownups, another Dale Butterworth sketch, which was really funny concept.
It was a it was like a kids it was like a kids show where the kids and the grown ups would challenge each other. And and the premise was that all of the challenges were were geared toward giving the adults advantage.
Yeah. Schwimmer’s the game show host, hated the kids, and it was,
Yeah. And all the all the you know, and one of the one of the challenges was tetherball, which tetherball, of course, is just, you know, the tallest guy wins. So that was one of the challenges. And then all the all the all the trivia quiz questions were sexually, you know, were adult oriented.
And then it would be like Mickey Mouse is the subject. Kids are all excited. Who’s the CEO of the Walt Disney Company?
Yeah. That’s right. That’s right. Oh, that’s right. Now that yeah. That one I have seen again. I do have a copy of that one. Don’t tell anyone, please, that I watch my old, sketch. It would be embarrassing.
You should–you should be proud of your stuff.
Np, please don’t let that get out.
It made me laugh so loud when you did that Quentin Tarantino sketch where Norm Macdonald’s in the black leather jacket smoking, and it’s the bible challenge, Clara Turley’s bible challenge. And you have Tarantino, and you have, Molly Shannon is these, the Christian, contestants, and Nancy Walls is the host. And what is the premise? It’s so funny.
Well, I think I called it “The Honor System Game Show.” It was on a little it was a game show on a Christian channel. It’s another game show, and the idea was that the the host of the game show will will ask questions, bible questions about the bible, about bible challenge, and she will take your word for it, whether you you just tell her whether or not you know the answer. You never have to answer anything because because she doesn’t believe anyone would would lie.
The first two were saying, “No. I didn’t know that,” “I didn’t know that.” Norm: “Yeah. I knew it.” And he’s, like, smoking.
Norm Macdonald eating eating a McDonald’s meal and smoking, chain smoking, and just claiming to know everything and winning every week. He was the, he he had won 30 weeks in a row. But Quentin Tarantino was in it, and that’s another example. That’s a host you wanna score, you know, because you wanna hang with Quentin Tarantino. I can’t remember if I ever got to hang with him. My memory really is a sieve.
Gabriel Byrne was the following week, and he was a great host. And he did that… it was a doctor. It was Nancy Walls and and Mark McKinney were parents, and it was a genetic doctor that was like, “Do you wanna meet your kid?” They haven’t even… I think they had conceived when she was pregnant, and they had you had this, like, technology where if you wanted to meet them as an adult, and that was Darrell Hammond came out.
They could clone your kid and, they would, I wrote it with Al Franken, who also was guest writing in those days. He would come in for a few shows. I don’t think he was on… was he full time there? You would you might know better.
He was not. He wrote a, a he wrote a a Clinton for, cold open for when Tarantino hosted, he wrote the cold open for Darrell Hammond. It was the first time he did Clinton. And so you wrote that with Al. That’s a really funny sketch.
I did write it with Al.I don’t I don’t remember that sketch, but I remember. It’s so funny. The my memories are are so selective, but I what I remember most is laughing on Tuesday night when we’re writing it. I mean, that’s the sweetest memories I have. You know, I I never as you mentioned, maybe, you know, earlier, I didn’t go to college. And and so so SNL was my fraternity. You know? That was my bonding time with and and I remember those Tuesday nights, so fondly. And then as a guest writer, it was just 3 or 4, 3 or 4 weeks a year. You you know, I I could hang out all night guilt-free. I even got I even went to some after parties.
The it’s been 25 years in October. I know it wasn’t the best experience, but how did Norm bring you in when he hosted in in 99 in October? It was Sam Simon.
Oh, wow. That’s 25 years.
It was you. It was Fred Wolf, and, I know Smigel was around that week. But how how did Norm bring in you?
Well, let me see. Norm had Norm had been famously fired, Norm and Jim Downey. I’m sure you’ve covered that on other shows. And he was invited back, was it the following year invited back?
It was, like, a a year or something after that. It might have been a year and a half.
I mean, it might have been you know, I mean, it’s it’s so interesting. It’s Lorne, you know, might have been obviously feeling guilty, and I’m sure their relationship was very complicated. And I’m sure Jim Downey was in the middle of it all, but but they invited Norm back, and Norm could… they they allowed Norm to bring 3 writers in with him. And even that is interesting, because if you think about it, that’s a lot of writers to bring in for good stuff. And that might have been Norm’s request, and it might have been a sign from Norm, might have been a signal from Norm that “I don’t trust your staff.” You know, it’s… “I need to bring in I need to write for myself this week,” you know? “I don’t think you’re gonna be able to to cover me.” It’s it it may it might have been a sign of little faith. And, you know, it’s a very interesting thing now that I think about it. So but, Norm brought 3 writers in. Fred Wolf, you’re right. Sam Simon, who I was meeting for the first time that week. I didn’t know him. And and I came in. And then it was I was in the room. I can’t deny being in the room, but we, yeah, we we wrote we wrote a monologue. It wasn’t… I don’t think it was my idea. I I don’t. But we wrote a monologue, where Norm sort of took a shot or two at the at the show at the current show, in the monologue, and it didn’t go over well with the current with the with the permanent current staff there. Not not surprisingly, that was the last time I guest wrote.
Oh, when you ghost guest wrote, they they didn’t bring you in again?
I think I think I was on their sh*t list, after that.
Did did they ask Norm not to do that monologue?
What a great question. It’s a great question. Did he do that joke? It was really one joke. It was one it was one big joke. It was the end of the monologue, but it’s a good question. Did he do it in dress?
He did do it in dress, but I’m asking if they asked him.
Oh, did he do it in dress, and then did they ask him not to do it? I don’t think that well, that’s a great question. Maybe. Look. Obviously, Sam Simon’s not with us, but Fred Wolf might know better than me. What a great question. I might have been in the room, you know, between dress and air. I I sometimes was. If I was guessing, I would say they didn’t have… it would have taken a lot of chutzpah after you fire a guy to censor him and not let him, you know, not let him take a a verbal jab or two, you know, you gotta let him have his moment. And I I don’t think they did censor him. It would be my guess. They didn’t ask for…
They didn’t censor him, but they had writers boo him. They had people on staff that were booing him when he said, “I haven’t gotten any, funnier. The show’s just gotten really bad,” and they had.
Wait. Can you hear the audio? You mean on the audio, you could hear people booing?
Oh, 100%. No. It was people that worked on the show that were were booing. Yeah.
They booed that part. I’m sorry. Is that something you could find online, or did they they swap it out for for a dress rehearsal?
It it got it got in with the the booing. They had, people that yeah, people were booing when when he said that. And at good nights, nobody would to Norm. Everyone stayed in the…
Yeah. Nobody. I remember yeah. I know that. He was shunned on the good night.
Dress rehearsal as well and good and at the air, they would not go up to him.
That’s not that’s not classy. You can’t you if you fire a guy, you gotta let him joke. You gotta let him tell some jokes. You’ve got to give him you gotta give him a little…
He said, I haven’t, well, he said, like, “Well, I’m funny compared to well, you’ll see a little later,” saying that he was, you know, funnier than everyone else. So they…
But let him take his shot. Let him take his shots. I mean, the man was the man was fired midseason so publicly.
You know, seven months before you you went with, for when Norm hosted, you know, Ray Romano hosted, and Phil Rosenthal and Mike Royce went over with Ray, and they got sketches on. It was a good experience. You said when you went over there with Fred Wolf and Sam Simon that you could tell that you weren’t welcome. How could you tell that early on that you weren’t welcome?
You mean you mean during that week?
Yeah.
Oh, when when now when are when are you quoting me? I said that?
It was the it was the James Andrew Miller/Tom Shales book, you said “We were not welcome.”
Oh, I well, I guess there was tension. I mean, I I you know, that my memory has faded with time.
A long time ago. You told me that you were “guilty by association.” That’s why with the monologue that you didn’t have anything to do with it, and it was just guilt by association.
That’s probably true. That’s probably true. I mean, it it that feel sounds to me like a joke Norm came in with. You know, that joke that Norm had been Norm had been stewing on the the situation, and and he had he had a year and a half to come up with a a one liner.
TV Fun House, I know Robert brought you in. What was your favorite piece that you wrote? I know you did the Oprah-Stedman thing was you.
Well, I wrote that with with Robert. That might have been my suggestion, but Robert, you know, you know, carried the ball. No, I was not… that was not a perfect fit for me. I didn’t get a lot, just a joke joke here or there, but it was… I’d never seen, I love being parts of projects where you can honestly say no one’s ever tried this before. You know? This is new new territory, and we’re in uncharted waters. It doesn’t happen often in your life where you can say that. And, that was a show. That was a format that, and the the tone of that show was new, not just to me, but to the world. And, you know, I’m proud of that credit, but I I it wasn’t my show. That was all Robert Smigel. You know? We were just running to keep up with him.
Before I ask my last question, I I have to read this review that I found this in a newspaper. This is from, in Calgary, from April of 1980 at the, Jubilee Auditorium when you opened up for Don McLean. The review says, “The star of last night’s concert, as far as I’m concerned, was Andy Breckman. He’s a 25 year old comedian masquerading as a singer songwriter, probably the only guy in the show business with a biography listing his activities in the next 18 years. He expects to die at 43 to after turning down to Pulitzer for fiction, recording the best selling album in history, and saving the movie business from bankruptcy with a series entitled “Andy and Ollie.” Breckman opened his show with a Warren Zevon style song about a man who kills his girlfriend’s brother and then claims he didn’t know the gun was loaded. It hardly mattered that Breckman could hardly sing and seem to only know 2 chords on his guitar. He’s as talented as performer who uses the…” It’s a glowing review. And my point is is it trashes Don McLean.
That’s so funny. I’d I’d not read that review in what was that? 50 years ago. That review changed my life in a way, and and I’ll tell you how. I used to do this joke when I opened for Don McLean. I would come out and, as part of my act, I would sing a few of my songs, and then I would sing “American Pie.” I would sing his big song.
As the opener?
I would go through it as straight as I could. That’s the opening act. And people were stunned at first to hear me sing. And then I and then they laugh. They just would laugh and laugh. I mean, it was it was a funny thing. So, anyway, Don Don always claimed… he’s kind of a prickly guy. He’s a sensitive guy. But Don Don McLean always claimed that he enjoyed that, that he enjoyed me singing “American Pie.” But then when that review came out, it changed our relationship instant, instantly. And, he was suddenly very cold to me, very distant. I and it it, you know, he took it he was so sensitive about it. And, you know, there were some performers that would’ve maybe congratulated the opening act on a good review. But, anyway, they wasn’t it wasn’t in his that wasn’t his temperament. But, anyway, that night, I went out. The night the review came out in the morning. That night, I went out. I sang. I did my set. I sang “American Pie” as I always had done. Big laugh. Big laugh. And then I said “Thank you,” and I left the stage. And then Don McLean came out. Don McLean came out, and he said this in between. He’s he said this. He said “It’s great to be here. I look forward to coming every year, and I’ll be back next year with a different opening act.” This is what he said from the stage. He took a shot at me. He took a shot at his opening act from the stage, and I was just stunned. I was just this kid. You know? I was just in my hands.
Because you asked permission.
Oh, yeah. No. I definitely got his permission. All the only thing I did wrong was get well-reviewed that morning, really.
And he denied it.
That was my crime. And then he came off stage and this is what he said to me. I’ll never forget. He he came off stage, and he looked at me in that and he said, “You play with me, you play with fire, and you just got burned.” That was what he said to me backstage.
Every cliche in the book.
Last time I opened for him.
I read something or heard you in an interview say that when that good review came out that that he was reading the newspaper when you came down that morning. He’s like, “Oh, we got we got killed. Both of us bad reviews.” And then he threw it out, and he totally lied to you.
He wouldn’t let he wouldn’t let me see the paper. He wouldn’t let me see the paper. So I have… Okay. It’s so funny that two of your little anecdotes about me involve me pissing people off, the Norm Macdonald and this. But, so I had my own celebrity feud. I’m not a celebrity. I’m not famous, but somehow I stumbled into a celebrity feud with Don McLean that continued on for years. I wrote an article about him in a small magazine and then he responded, online with, with a response. He he just is such a ****. He’s the biggest **** I ever knew. (Laughs.) And then and then when he got divorced, he went through a very messy divorce, like, 5 years ago. His wife’s lawyer called me up and said, “Hey, do you have any more stories?” Because I had written a few stories about Don McLean. You know? “Hey, do you have any more stories? We’d like to use them in court in our divorce proceedings.” I did not take him up on that, even though… even though I did have more Don McLean stories. Anybody that goes on tour, he he gets the he or, you know, gets to see things and hear things. But I didn’t share the stories because he he was really down. When a guy’s getting divorced, you know, it it’s hard to kick him. You know?
I just love that McLean in 2004 is like, ‘You better post my response to Breckman.”
Yeah. Yeah. What is it? There’s nothing better to do. But I will say this on a final note. If you’re ever in a celebrity feud, Mark, and I know that you’re on the verge of a couple, you probably are. Yeah, exactly. Good luck. But if you’re ever in the celebrity feud and the guy’s wife calls asking for dirt, that means you’ve won the feud. So I feel like I was victorious.
In 2021, it was revealed that they’re doing a Jim Downey documentary called Downey Wrote That. You’re an executive producer on it. There’s 5 or 6 people. It’s gonna be on Peacock. I looked at the calendar, and it’s 2024. It’s it’s June, and the doc is still not out. What is going on?
No. It’s actually, they’re well, they’re they they had to re edit it. They they they went through some it went through some changes, and Broadway Video did a re edit on it, and it is on their schedule now. It will be on their schedule later this year. And, you know, they’re doing a lot for the 50th season. You know, Peacock is planning a number of specials. And if you’re an SNL fan, I think you’re gonna be overloaded with these things. But Downey Wrote That will be will be one of the specials. I know they have at least 4 others because I was interviewed for one of them.
I can’t wait. Yeah. They have the guy who did, like, the Mister Rogers documentary and a bunch of others that is doing a a a bunch of, I think, like, 5 shorter documentaries.
Yeah. No. They’re they’re doing five. The the Downey the the Downey doc was reedited and, by Oz Rodriguez, who is sort of the one of the A-team guys on, from Broadway Video.
I don’t think people, a lot of people know, listening how in awe if you are a comedy writer. I mean, Smigel is one of the the greatest of all time. I mean, I think he’s probably, you know, he’s I I think for me personally, I mean, known him since I was 17. And for him just to be in awe of Downey says speaks volumes for someone like him.
Oh my god. Well, he’s not alone. I mean, everybody in the business.
Everybody does. Anybody that’s any good.
Everybody admires him, and then it feels like a 1,000. But it’s it’s so dozens and dozens of famous names are indebted to him. They’re because he got them their first gig or recommended them for, their one of their early jobs. So everyone admires him, and many, many people are in indebted to him. And he’s and the tone he struck became, in many ways, the tone of of the of the of SNL. You know, he he was more than the institutional memory. He was he he was the comedic voice. So a very important comedy writer, and it’s not surprising that of the thousands.. How many writers has have written for SNL over since over the 50 years?
If I had to guess, probably, like, a 170, maybe maybe 200.
Oh, I would guess I would say more if you add them all up over the
I guess with some people were only there for, a little bit like
That’s right. I would I would guess it was it was significantly more than that. But but of all those writers, hundreds of writers, only 1, I think, you know, is is is getting his own doc. You know? I mean yeah.
I mean, I can’t wait. By the way, when if I reach out to Mr Downey, can I mention that I talked to you and
Oh, sure? That’ll that’ll that’ll move the needle. Sure. That’ll move the ball with you.
You guys are best friends. I mean…
Well well, I’ll tell him well, he’s he’s actually a difficult guy to, to sometimes a difficult guy to get ahold of, but he’s worth the my experience, he’s worth the trouble.
I have his contact information. I will check it out. I mean, all these guys love you. I mean, Al Franken took you on, with the troops overseas. I mean…
Yeah. We did. Yeah. He took me he used to go every he used to go every year, before he was, in the senate. He went every year, and he got to bring a writer with him every year.
It was like his Bob Hope special, you and him.
Well, I was not on stage with him, but he was, he let me, he we did, a week or 2 weeks in the sh*t. That’s what I like to say. It wasn’t I was not really near near the sh*t, but…
You’ve done interviews. How did this go for you? I know you asked me, but how did it go for you?
It’s really great. And and I really I I I love how that helped deeply you drilled down. And if Downey asked me, I’ll I’ll definitely recommend the the experience to him.
Oh, thanks.
And I I will it’s this is one interview that I I hope, you know, down the road. You know, I have 5 kids. If they’re ever curious about about what their old man did for a living, this is something that they might wanna bring up.
“Japanese Game Show” is the funniest sketch ever on SNL. It’s like a hilarious bad dream. Up there with “You Bet Your Finger.” Andy Breckman is a great comedy writer.